AIBU to be worried about the normalisation of far right politics?

[Apileofballyhoo]

Just that really. I'm interested in what people consider to be far right and what people think causes it and what should be done about it.

I think it's caused by inequality and people feeling hopeless.

A genuine question for all those who say they are either leaning more towards the far right or are far right?

What does this mean in terms of your views? When I was younger far right basically meant, a bunch of people who believed you only belonged in this country if you were white. That changed slightly over the years to white and Christian (my experience).

So, if you are far right, I would honestly love to hear your views. I only ask, because I run away at the term as someone who isn’t white. If someone turned around in a queue and said they’re far right, to me that means ‘get out of here, I don’t care if you’re second/third generation born and bred here etc etc’

Tolerance only exists when dialogue and understanding take place.

I'm finding some of the 'message' on this thread fascinating.

We know that Bannon and his ilk use social media to identify, target and recruit - and also to test and disseminate recruitment material.

I wonder if this thread demonstrates some of the ur-target/recruitment material?

Eg. 'I'm not Far Right. I'm just an ordinary person. I'm nice. I can't be Far Right because I'm nice. But (Left-wing) people keep calling me racist/sexist!! It's their fault!!! And it makes me feel stupid!!'

It's interesting,

1. Clearly, the 'message' is developed to target people with a sense of inferiority

• a social/cultural sense of inferiority (they don't fit in this shiny C21 world of zippy people, and their social/cultural beliefs)
• an educational sense of inferiority (I think the message is again going to target people with fewer educational qualifications - expect a wearying re-run of 'I have 4 degrees, how dare you call me stupid for doing something stupid' and 'I voted Far Right because the Libs made me feel stupid! It's your fault for using big words!).

1. Despite all protestations to the contrary, Bannon and Co are VERY ware of the psychologic fragility/sense of inferiority of their core target - and will exploit it shamelessly.

1. There is s collapse between actions - both structural and individual and identity. The lack of ability to 'do' nuance - probably linked to educational attainment - will be similarly exploited:

Instead of 'Some structures in society discriminate against certain groups, let's change them' SOME people will always hear: 'YOU are a racist' and go into meltdown.

1. And, of course, a lot of people ARE quietly racist/sexist/etc. And they DON'T like being told.

The Bannon message will give them a perfect ego massage, a nice warm bath for their hurt feelings, and allow them to think those mean Liberals are a. Unjustified and b. Responsible for pushing them to a more extreme position.

It's quite child-like, really.

All about never having to deal with reality, with the responsibilities of the adult world. With responsibility generally.

Someone else is always in charge. The 'others' can be blamed both for stopping you from exerting power but also - how cunning!!- they also serve to stop you from psychologically ever having to accept you do have power, you do exert it. And therefore you ^are responsible for its effects.

In short, I think Bannon -style Far Right recruitment messages promise people a kind of nappy service.

It's pandering to that whole adult-baby fetish, in political terms.

Sad, really. They vote Far Right - but really, what they want is to go back to childhood. ☹️

I don’t consider myself “far right” but I’m pretty socially conservative (I don’t agree with abortion, I don’t care about the pursuit of equality as long as a reasonable standard of living is achievable for the lowest in society, I see nothing wrong with sex roles as long as there is an opportunity for those genuinely unsuited by temperament or will to carve out a different path, I don’t care what race or culture someone is from but I think immigration should be slow and limited to allow communities time to adapt and reduce the social upheaval it causes etc). I think in general as time goes on social conservatism is perceived as more and more right wing while economic “conservatism” (which is really liberalism in the classic sense) is seen as more and more not only acceptable but inevitable.

Far right wing policies are going to influence politics becuase right wing populist parties are gaining in popularity

It’s been stupidly ignored for too long and still denied These parties have broken away from the far right (BNP etc) and created right wing populist parties that have softer approach (on immigration and immigrants) and the policies are varied with ideas from the right and left to appeal to many but tend to be Euroceptic, use anti Islamic rhetoric, immigration (rather than anti every immigrant) but will also pledge that they will put the people first which has worked well with the many in Europe and the States who have felt left behind

The referendum is down to Farage (though it was Boris who won it), Germany has the far right in the Bundestag which would have been inconceivable to the majority of Germans 10 years ago, in Dramce a third of voters voted for a far right wing populist party, Italy Austria, Greece, Netherlands, Hungary, Poland all have right wing populist parties that have gained popularity even in Sweden

Even if they don’t have seats in parliaments there is still a large number of people other parties want to win back and this influences policies who ever is in power. UK’s referendum, Frances tightening and questionable immigration policies, Germany banning the headscarf for girls and tightening immigration policies (Merkel used language in her last campaign that was surprisingly right wing) and Italy turning away migrants with huge support within the country

Right wing populism is very much in force in Europe and the States it was ignored for too long

Dramce I typed France

Corbyn isn’t “far” left. It shows how far right the country is when a standard leftist is viewed as extreme.

On the contrary, there has been no decade in which a portion of the British mainstream would have accepted Corbyn as much as happens now, there has been a violent lurch to the left.

Even in the late seventies and early eighties left, where you had educated, ideologically literate left wing politicians galore, the unions fighting what they saw as a war, open endorsement of communism by many and the stakes were seen as extreme, Corbyn was viewed by many in Labour as a bit of an extreme nutter.

How has the “lurch” to the left been “violent?”

Is the EU a neoliberal dream? How so?

Sounds like it might be time to hit your local library and start reading about the EU.

Brexit isn’t going to lead to socialism and a fairer society is it? It will lead to disaster capitalism

I'm just as concerned about far-left racists like Corbyn and his ilk.

I am too lostincake but that is behind the scenes

Corbyn will probably have another shot at being PM in an election Tories will win and then hopefully we can get rid of him and Momentum

What I meant is that it isn’t party policy - but still threatening and unacceptable

I'm just as concerned about far-left racists

Who are the left racist to?

How has the “lurch” to the left been “violent?”

Antifa- Brown Shirts in Black Masks

Oh we shall get a whole load of its been proved by the report there isn’t an anti semitism problem in the Labour party

But so many are saying there is

I mean look at the rest of the post I quoted, it perfectly encapsulates the ridiculous batshit narrative that people are not supposed to DARE to disagree with. It is not far right becoming normal, it is normality being re-categorized as far right.

The modern left is the little boy who cried wolf, and the Wolf that follows is of its own making.

^ This is absolutely spot on. Well said.

Even if they don’t have seats in parliaments there is still a large number of people other parties want to win back and this influences policies who ever is in power.

Enthusiasmisdisturbed this is what bothers me.

You know the left have completely lost the plot when Labour MPs are describing gay rights groups that are opposed to sharia law (which incidentally deems homosexuality a sin, punishable by death among other punishments) as "far right". Completely Orwellian cognitive dissonance.

I'mAldoot

Sounds like it might be time to hit your local library and start reading about the EU.

I'm not denying neoliberal, just wondering about neoliberal dream.

I'm not denying neoliberal, just wondering about neoliberal dream.

It is the ultimate neoliberal dream, etc.

Prob bad phrasing on my part, but it still is a strange timeline as I said.

Unfortunately populist parties will work on what is popular with voters so they are able to gain support form right left and centre voters as their policies are not just right wing

And I should have said even if they don’t have many seats .... thankfully here they don’t but their influence is still there and would be regardless who is in power

lostincale you have to link.

In this modern era of disinformation, fuzzy information, and downright chicanery, you have to be specific.

Nuance and specificity matter. They are the targets of the New Far Right, they are its enemy, and - unsurprisingly - they are the weapon in our arsenal to fight back and resist.

Which gay rights group?

Which Labour MPs?

What were the gay right's group taking issue with?

What was the ground of objectin?

The specificity matters, otherwise it all descends into a cloud of vague, fact-free nothingness, that invites people to fill in the gaps with their own pre-existing suppositions.

I don't think things are all that extreme. The vast majority of people in the UK are centre left or centre right.

The Tories obviously have right-wing policies, but they don't equate to "far right", even if they aren't always palatable.

Farage is further right but he hasn't been an MP, had nothing to do with the official leave campaign, and his party has only ever been a small minority (and not even voted for by most Brexiteers). He has just been given a lot of airtime.

Even further right (and on the far left). there is a tiny percentage of extremists, including some who exhibit harmful and illegal behaviour. The vast majority of ordinary people would not consider them to represent our views at all.

I do find Labour to be further left than when they were about ordinary working class people, inclusivity for the north, the miners, etc. The Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott combination isn't a great one. There's way too much London-centric champagne socialism in there, with Corbyn's faux "ordinary guy" act (he went to prep school and grew up in a 7-bedroom house), Abbott sending her son to a private school etc. This has led to a more "top down" approach IMO, dating back to Blair, and it isn't the plain-speaking Labour Party it once was.

It used to seem easier to have friends of varying political views. You respected each other's right to see things differently, and understood that if the other person held a view unlike yours, they could still be a good person with the best intentions. These days it feels more tribal, at least partly because social media reinforces political polarisation and suspicion. This simplified, shorthand type of politics reduces the subtlety of finding common goals, partial agreement - or accepting that the other person can have decent motives even when you disagree.

Any extreme in either direction is a problem

How has the “lurch” to the left been “violent?”

The left has lurched further to the left, not all of society, and over a short space of time.

This is why the broadly centre-left Labour Party many of us would have voted for has basically been razed to the ground, and this is why pretty normal views are now categorized as "far right".

Meanwhile, the rest of society has not moved to the left. The left thinks it has pushed others out of the debate with the ploy of labelling people, and for decades that ploy has been successful, but people took it too far, included majority views. Now the vocal virtue signalling aspect of the hard left has made itself irrelevant to millions of people from all over the political spectrum. Whether you are what used to be a Labour voter (apparently now a "red tory", or a conservative, or a libertarian, or whatever the hell else.