AIBU to be worried about the normalisation of far right politics?

[Apileofballyhoo]

Just that really. I'm interested in what people consider to be far right and what people think causes it and what should be done about it.

I think it's caused by inequality and people feeling hopeless.

I can see your point but...

Many British people were enslaved but in different ways - indentured servitude was used widely for British people. Also, let's not forget a lot of people who are British now have black African slaves as ancestors.

There is an argument about how much 'freedom' counts when you are working 15 hour days in cotton mills - but I take your point.

The trade union movement as it stands today has more female members than men. So what though ? I would go as far as to say the TUC has a history of systematically attacking the rights of women - own the past. It did it and it was wrong.

Move on - the Grunwick Dispute helped changed the view of working women and immigrants in the work force.

Own your history, then move on and make it better.

indentured servitude was used widely for British people.

Really. I mean yes Cromwell used for prisoners of war but it was mostly about transporting people to the colonies at the time. And even then, things like the Passenger Vessels Act 1803 were brought in to stop British people leaving (via indentured servitude) by raising the cost of transport.

And its important to note that indentured servitude is still a country mile from enslavement.

And yes, there are plenty of Brits with slave ancestors. Like from the Windrush immigrants. And they have been treated well havent they....

(and the Windrush immigrants are an example of what I was talking about - the ambition and desire to leave their country for something better. So many Brits want it handed to them on a plate).

I think we agree the slave trade that funded the Empire and thus the exploitation of many people was evil. Britain as a nation benefited from it.

While the working classes in the U.K. were massively exploited it is not really comparable to the way African slaves were treated.

Interestingly, there is a history of black people in the U.K. dating back to Elizabethan times (not sure of my dates) in ports like Salford, Bristol, and London.

So many Brits want it handed to them on a plate

Why so sneery?

Your posts are full of hate for white British people.

Why the continuous bigotry? Is it a hobby of yours?

I don't think Brits want it handed to them on a plate. I do think that a lot of people in the UK think 'what's the point' and don't believe in the value of education, because the class system means they don't get the same opportunities that middle class people get. They can't afford to take unpaid internships. They don't have connections. They have less access to the good jobs, the good schools, the good universities.

The solution isn't to blame foreigners, however. In other countries in Europe there is far less inequality. Disadvantaged British people really need to look far closer to home for a cause for their woes.

LeahJack how are British people being disadvantaged in the UK compared to migrants? Because all the stuff you read in the Mail about migrants jumping the queue for council housing is nonsense. It really is. Housing is allocated on a needs basis, not a nationality basis.

That isn’t quite correct. Because part of the allocation is based on whether or not you are intentionally homeless. Which really does discriminate against native British. Losing your job a couple not being able to pay your rent can disqualifiy you from entitlement to social housing in a way it won’t an economic migrant.

Daisy Do you, personally, see the Far Right as the answer to problems?

Do you endorse the Far Right?

I'm a migrant. So you could say I 'stole' a British job. But I didn't offer to do my job for less, it was a normal competitive process and I got the job because I was the best. Do people in the UK really want companies and public sector employers not to employ the best staff but instead to take someone less skilled, less experienced and less qualified just because of their nationality?

Well yes, if you only prioritise the right of employers above employers sure.

And if you reject the idea that coherent communities offer benefits to their members

Daisy Do you*, personally, see the Far Right as the answer to problems?

Do you endorse the Far Right?*

What the fuck?

Why are you singling me out with these question?

What have I said that has provoked these questions?

In fact, that's the second time you have singled me out with those questions, and I I answered you the first time.

By repeating the same questions again, it seems like you are intent on implying I endorse the far right.

Why are you asking the same thing again when I already answered?

My mistake - it wasn't the exact same questions, they were of the same theme though.

I answered you earlier though, so I'm interested in why you require me to answer again.

Should I post a rejection of the far right every day, just to keep you happy?

Should I start every post with "I do not endorse the far right, nor do I think they are the answer to problems" before I say anything else?

Should other posters do this too, or is it just me that is required to repeatedly renounce them?

I think it's a fair question, Daisy.

I've asked other posters.

It's a thread about the normalisation of the Far Right, your posts seem to be saying: 'They have a point ...'

I think it's fine for me to ask for clarity about where you stand.

I don't mind answering the same question.

The thread is a conversation. That conversational style is what makes MN very different to other forums, which seem to be dominated by men dumping their opinions (and screeching at women who have an opinion).

At the most basic level, I'm just interested.

Surely it's good to have a conversation rather than an argument - to do that, it helps to get a context and a ground for people's views.

You see, I'm thinking, if you don't endorse the Far Right, it's worth considering why that is. You say you have some shared beliefs (about modern problems) and also shared belief in project (solutions to those problems).

However, you say you don't endorse the Far Right, so isn't it a good idea to explore those divergences?

Really, if we want to resist the normalisation of the Far Right, those points of divergence are crucial.

Actually, Daisy, this may be my bad, but I can't see your earlier post

a.) asking why I keep asking you that (I think I've only asked you once)

b.) where you state that you don't endorse the Far Right.

I think it's fine for me to ask for clarity about where you stand.

You asked me earlier in the thread.
I answered immediately.

Why did you need me to clarify again?

You see, I'm thinking, if you don't endorse the Far Right, it's worth considering why that is. You say you have some shared beliefs (about modern problems) and also shared belief in project (solutions to those problems).

Please show me where I have said that I 'share some beliefs with the far right', or indeed that I 'share belief in the far right project'.

It's a thread about the normalisation of the Far Right, your posts seem to be saying: 'They have a point ...'

Do they?

Please do direct me to a single post of mine which suggest this, let alone 'posts' (plural).

My apologies. I didn't see it. I'll scroll back.

Really, you sound angry - as though you feel attacked. All I can say is that attacking isn't my intention. I'm not interested in arguing with people who are against the Far Right. I'm far more interested in seeing if alliances against the Far Right are possible.

Really, you sound angry - as though you feel attacked.

I'm not angry.

Just wondering why I've been singled out by two posters now (You & Helmet), both of whom have decided to make up stuff that I have apparently said, or alluded to (I haven't).

Don't misrepresent my words, or make shit up & I won't have to defend myself.
It's very simple.

See I'm interested now - could someone please give me the time and date of the posts in question. I'm just being nosey.

Far left are much worse

All extremes are dangerous.

Now we were talking about the far right.

OK , Daisy, I think I've found it: Monday 12:08.

I suppose I was looking for something clearer: an acknowledgement of the Far Right as a specific thing. But I can see where you are pitched.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Please accept my apology for not having read that as your answer.

See I'm interested now - could someone please give me the time and date of the posts in question. I'm just being nosey

My pleasure!
I'd love to know which ones in particular spelled out/suggested my 'support for the far right project'.

A list of all my posts, for ease of reference:

Friday
17:32
17:41
17:44
17:54
17:55
17:59
18:25

Saturday
13:29
12:43
12:45
15:39
17:16
18:56
19:02

Monday
02:08
02:11
02:17
09:49
13:05
13:24
18:00
18:15
18:24
19:08
19:13

Yesterday
15:55
17:21
23:39
23:44
23:57

And today's posts.

DaisyTwirl all that work and Cat had already given us the answer and a very polite apology.

I suppose I was looking for something clearer: an acknowledgement of the Far Right as a specific thing. But I can see where you are pitched.

Perhaps you could be clearer wrt which posts of mine you were referencing with this:

"You say you have some shared beliefs (about modern problems) and also shared belief in project (solutions to those problems).^"

"^It's a thread about the normalisation of the Far Right, your posts seem to be saying: 'They have a point ...'"

LeahJack*

I have a question for you: Do you think individuals and companies pay too much tax?