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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be worried about the normalisation of far right politics?

472 replies

Apileofballyhoo · 26/07/2018 14:31

Just that really. I'm interested in what people consider to be far right and what people think causes it and what should be done about it.

I think it's caused by inequality and people feeling hopeless.

OP posts:
user1497863568 · 29/07/2018 03:03

In reality, it's all collusion :( Which has led to some very thorny questions about the past. It's all about theft by those who already have the most.

counterpoint · 29/07/2018 11:12

There are so many contradictions within a number of ideas posted by a few here. At the moment, these things don't make sense to me.

(a) Russia supposedly funded a Brexit. Why?
The outcome of our Brexit crawl has allowed for a stronger EU. Is that what Russia wanted or are they stupid?

(b) Corbyn is supposedly pro-Russia.
So, did Corbyn desire the Brexit that Russia supposedly funded?

So my question is: are Russia and Corbyn working together to (i) bring about a Brexit, or, (ii) halt the Brexit?

(c) The far left (aka Corbyn according to some) is portrayed as anti-Semitic.
So, are the far-right now wrongly being compared to the classically anti-Semitic Nazis?

Not long ago it was the most centrist of parties, the Lib Dems (remember them?) who were branded as anti-Semitic.

So who now is the most anti-Semitic; the far left or the far right? Or is the whole world anti-Semitic (apart from [most] Jews)?

Questions brought on by, inter alia, this pp:

As for russian influence no one is denying that, but JC and many in his party are pretty well known for Russian apologism, and anti-semitism well, we everyone knows the history of anti-semitism in the far left, and how its bubbling up through corbyns ranks

Helmetbymidnight · 29/07/2018 11:33

I don’t really get what you are trying to say - it looks like you are trying to pretend there was no collusion with Russians and Brexit campaign. It looks like you are denying Russian intervention/financing/use of social media.
It looks like you don’t really care about those things ‘because corbyn’-

Is that right? It doesn’t matter if Brexit was won by foreign influence/illegal campaigning and lies?

As for the Russians must be stupid- errr- you are the one who fails to understand that Brexit will mean a weakened eu and a weakened U.K.
that IS properly stupid.

counterpoint · 29/07/2018 12:07

I think Cameron prepared it all nicely for us with his constant criticisms of the EU, Greece, Italy, Spain etc. Cameron and his entourage of whatever colour; Boris, Farage, even May with her far right, anti-immigration policies. They blinded us to what we could lose by leaving the EU.

DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 12:43

it looks like you are trying to pretend there was no collusion with Russians and Brexit campaign.

Must have this fucking bombshell in the news!

Source?

'Collusion' between Russia & the official brexit campaign?

Wow.

Are you that Cadwallader woman? She's prone to flights of fancy too.

DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 12:45

(Missed a missed in last post 🙄)

Must have missed this fucking bombshell in the news!

pinook · 29/07/2018 12:53

Sue Jones who writes a very interesting blog called Politics and Insights largely documenting the neo liberalist policies of the last few decades and austerity under Condem and now Conservative just wrote this on her Facebook page about the rise of fascism.

“I'm just writing about the rise of fascism in Europe, the US and UK, and have been researching features of fascism, some of which I have discussed before. We always like to think fascism wouldn't happen here. But it is a process that has been unfolding in the UK, hidden in plain view.

One feature of fascism that I hadn't previously seen was 'productivism' or 'growthism'. This is the belief that measurable economic productivity and growth are the key purpose of human organisation (e.g., work), and that "more production is necessarily good".

I thought of the bizarre ideological claim that "work is a health outcome", the extremely punitive and coercive policies aimed at 'incentivising' disabled people and others who aren't 'economically productive' to work , coupled with the Tories' obsessive narratives on economic growth and productivity.

'Strong and stable' is also a slogan many fascists have used, too.

Critiques of productivism centre primarily on the limits to growth posed by finite planet resources and extend into discussions of human procreation, human agency and autonomy, interfering with life processes more generally, and the 'work ethic.' Many of us have objected to this approach over recent years because of the terrible human costs that productionist policies leave in their wake.

And its associations with authoritarian doctrines, totalitarianism and fascism.”

Moussemoose · 29/07/2018 13:24

I can understand why people don't like Corbyn if you don't agree with him - I dislike many Tory politicians. However, I can't see why he is continually cast as the a communist. Most members of the 1945 Labour government were considerably more left wing than Corbyn and that resulted in the NHS.

TM is on the right of politics but she is not a facist. JC is on the left but he is not a communist.

thecatfromjapan · 29/07/2018 13:44

DaisyTwirl

How have you missed it?

Are you based in the UK?🤨

DCMS report.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/07/2018 15:12

pinook that is very worrying.

Disabled people are being told they are well enough to work and having benefits cut off, when they are clearly not well enough to work.

Benefit scroungers indeed.

OP posts:
lostincake · 29/07/2018 15:20

Are those people who are angry about supposed Russian interference in Brexit as angry about Soros's interference in Brexit?

Moussemoose · 29/07/2018 15:25

Any outside interference in an election is wrong.

We have electioneering rules for a reason everybody needs to abide by them.

Left, right, in the middle or doing the Hokey Cokey. Follow the rules.

DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 15:39

*DaisyTwirl

How have you missed it?

Are you based in the UK?🤨

DCMS report.*

I've not seen anything that states there was 'collusion' between Russia & the official Leave campaign, no.

thecatfromjapan · 29/07/2018 15:45

LostInCake

Soros didn't funnel millions into a campaign illegally.

Soros is not a hostile state power.

This is ^^ not a case of 'six of one; half a dozen of the other'.

It'll take a while but people will be going to jail about this.

Soros won't be one of them.

Moreover, since it increasingly looks as though there is a clear overlap with the actors, agencies, networks and methods of those involved in the US election, some folk will be facing charges there, too.

There's a death penalty for treason in the US.

I do wonder if the desperate scramble to continue to subvert democratic political process in the UK is not related to an attempt to put people out of reach of prison in the UK and appropriate sentencing in the US.

thecatfromjapan · 29/07/2018 16:05

Daisy Twirl

The DCMS report has only just come out of embargo.

I haven't read it myself - yet.

It is being reported by those that have that key passages referring to Aron Banks in particular suggest that money used to fund the Leave campaign cannot be accounted for and was - in the opinion of the DCMS report - part of an operation by the Kremlin to destabilise the EU.

It's very serious when a statement such as this is made.

Furthermore, Damien Collins is now publicly applying pressure on the UK government to share with the public the ramifications of this for the UK's relationship with Russia AND stating that evidence has been handed to the FBI.

This is in today's Observer.

I don't like to overly discuss the Leave campaign on s thread about the rise of the Far Right.
However, it would appear some of the actors are related
And the investigation into the illegal activities of some of these actors has given us information into how they act - in a way that we don't have that information about their present activities.

Further, I do think it sheds light on the urgency with which certain actors may scramble to seize power, in a still destabilised political situation, and thereby protect themselves - and the groups with which they are involved - from further prosecution.

thecatfromjapan · 29/07/2018 16:10

Returning to the topic of the rise of the Far Right, I came across an excellent, and short, article by Unberto Eco the other day, which set forward some very convincing markers of the Far Right.

I will look to see if I can find it.

Having said that, I think that all of us need to be aware that Facsism evolves.

One of my favourite thoughts comes from Sarah Kendzior, who advises that, in times of extremism, you are best advised to take time to write s journal. Begin by writing about your values: what you hold dear, what you aspire to, lines that you will not cross and believe others should not.

Refer to that journal and list at intervals. Check to see if your own and society's boundaries have been pushed.

Be honest and bd brave.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/07/2018 16:56

cat

One of my favourite thoughts comes from Sarah Kendzior, who advises that, in times of extremism, you are best advised to take time to write s journal. Begin by writing about your values: what you hold dear, what you aspire to, lines that you will not cross and believe others should not.

Refer to that journal and list at intervals. Check to see if your own and society's boundaries have been pushed.

Be honest and bd brave.

That's so sad. I'm close to tears.

OP posts:
DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 17:16

This is in today's Observer.

By the Cadwalladr woman?

She's already 'clarified' a few of her typically sweeping statements on Twitter.
I await the inevitable 'corrections' in the paper itself.

I don't think there's a single article of hers on this topic that hasn't required 'correction'.

thecatfromjapan · 29/07/2018 17:18

The Damien Collins quotes are widely reported.

The DCMS report is exactly what it is: a parliamentary report.

DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 18:56

And 'collusion' between Russia & the official Leave campaign has been specifically cited?

You do realise that collusion is a whole different thing to interference, don't you?

DaisyTwirl · 29/07/2018 19:02

The Damien Collins quotes are widely reported.

I just can't seem to find a single quote where Damien Collins has specifically accused the official Leave campaign of collusion with the Russian state.

(Not Russian interference, or links between non-official Leave campaign personnel & Russia - but actual collusion).

Perhaps you can link?

longwayoff · 29/07/2018 19:27

Aaron Banks will give you what lack Daisy

Helmetbymidnight · 29/07/2018 22:50

Oh daisy!

You’re cool with racist incidents going up, with the great leaders Farage being an anti-Semite, with jacob Rees mogg hiding his money, with David Davis doing fuck all and then fucking off, with no solution to the Irish border, with companies leaving the U.K, with the fear among business communities, Nhs, farming, social care, with stockpiling of food and meds, with the insecurity of eu citizen in U.K. and U.K. citizens in the eu, with leave campaign illegal overspending, with racist and untrue poster campaign, with illegal targeted ads, with putins backing, with Arron banks leaves biggest funder having repeated secret meetings with Russian officials but wait, woah, did someone use the word collusion!!! That’s crossing a line that is!
What. A fucking outrage!!!

Brexiteers. staggering.

user1497863568 · 29/07/2018 23:22

Every time I hear these twats talk I think "You put people in gas chambers". They're running scared because everyone knows that they did it. All the pedophila, harassment, unjust policies, insane war policies etc stem from the unfair advantage they gained from this. To blame George Soros is just ridiculous.

We are run by criminals.

DaisyTwirl · 30/07/2018 02:08

*Oh daisy!

You’re cool with racist incidents going up, with the great leaders Farage being an anti-Semite, with jacob Rees mogg hiding his money, with David Davis doing fuck all and then fucking off, with no solution to the Irish border, with companies leaving the U.K, with the fear among business communities, Nhs, farming, social care, with stockpiling of food and meds, with the insecurity of eu citizen in U.K. and U.K. citizens in the eu, with leave campaign illegal overspending, with racist and untrue poster campaign, with illegal targeted ads, with putins backing, with Arron banks leaves biggest funder having repeated secret meetings with Russian officials*

What the fuck?

I have never, ever said any of those things.

I have already asked you before in this thread to stop ascribing things to me that I haven't said, or even alluded to..

Ive no idea what your agenda is, but it's fucking weird.

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