AIBU to be worried about the normalisation of far right politics?

[Apileofballyhoo]

Just that really. I'm interested in what people consider to be far right and what people think causes it and what should be done about it.

I think it's caused by inequality and people feeling hopeless.

The far left and far right have more in common, than that which divides them

Such as?

Jew hate.

So let's not aim for equality but for loose standards based on culture?

Why not? To some degree equality requires not uniformity but a significant restriction of diversity and freedom (because if nothing else different lifestyles have different effects on children’s economic outcomes - even if those lifestyles are all comfortable and acceptable in their own cultural context). I think freedom and the existence of diverse ways of life and ways of thinking and systems of values is more important than levelling and equalising either outcomes - or even opportunities, although I think it best if some degree of opportunity is open to all).

I'm 70. I can never remember being so concerned about what's happening to this country.
OP YADNBU - the change in society over the last ten years has been horrendous - and since the referendum, I can't believe what's happening - Nazi salutes in London? An MP murdered in broad daylight? People who have lived here for decades locked up and deported? A third of ALL children living in poverty? Foodbanks used by nurses and fire fighters? A generation priced out of housing? The NHS dismantled brick by brick? The disabled having their mobility cars removed? People starving and freezing to death?
It's like living in some awful nightmare...but it's real - and people who can't see why this is happening, who close their eyes to the suffering and who are brainwashed into believing that this is all, somehow, the fault of Jeremy Corbyn --- words fail me...

SeamstressfromTreacleMineRoad

Heatwave, Drought, Failed Harvest, predictions for another harsh winter, followed by a hard Brexit. What you are seein is a perfect storm for civil unrest. I am seriously expecting this could develop into a civil war.

Imagine if Russia air drops some rifles to the hardliners in April 2019.

...the fact that living standards are falling and that nobody on the left cares.

Surely you can see that the drop in living standards is down to the Tory austerity measures? There are people who care and campaign tirelessly. You'll find them to be to the left and not to the right.

You can’t blame the tories because living standards are dropping across the Western world not just in the UK and the tories have no control over that (of course they are making for one of the most monumentally incompetent governments we’ve ever had as well but they’re not to blame for that specific issue).

lostincake now that's a good example of why referencing matters.

GaysAgainstSharia^* is a Far Right front organisation, associated with the EDL.

They've been blocked from marching in Bristol, as well as Stockton.

They self-describe as being 'anti-Islamic' not just the less-controversial 'anti-Sharia law' (such. Nonsense in the UK, where we follow UK law).

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that identifying all Islamic people with followers and proponents of sharia law is a sleight of hand that is either stupid or done for nefarious purposes. 😊

The group seem very indicative of a move we see elsewhere - the desperate grappling for respectability amongst the nasty Far Right. Y clothing themselves in a lambskin of a popular movement.

Think of a wolf, wearing a lambskin rug, wandering along saying 'Baaa' in a very unconvincing manner.

Tommy Robinson - that dodgy, right-wing criminal. Beloved of Bannon. And the terminally stupid/racist. He's a good example of the* practice.

Honestly, Lostincake, if you take the time to actually look these things up st source, it's usually not as strange as you think.

No wonder Labour MP has called them an anti-Islami group.

They are!!!

By their own definition!!! 🙂

Seamstress I'm with you. We've let this happen somehow. Christ almighty.

But not violent right?
Yes, a violent lurch, the phrase does not imply literal physical violence is occurring. I'm not here to teach you English.

You talk of labelling and then use the right wing phrase “virtue signalling”

I do talk of labelling, and you just did it. Regardless of its origins, people of various political persuasions use the term "virtue signalling", because it describes a recognizable thing that people do.

"No Dogs, Blacks or Irish" signs on B&B's for example.

Now the sign would read

No women,
No non English going back five generations,
No Jews or Christians.

It's all about extremist authoritarian males who shout the loudest.

I am seriously expecting this could develop into a civil war.

I have seen politically active far left men from my area inciting this, on social media.

I have seen politically active far left men from my area inciting this, on social media

Yep. They won't see themselves as bad people, they will just have to fight "the nazis" and "the far right".

Considering how much of society's most commonly encountered opinions are apparently now "far right" the implications are not good.

Considering how much of society's most commonly encountered opinions are apparently now "far right" the implications are not good.

Which commonly encountered opinions do you think are being labelled far right?

I know someone who went to a predominantly EE frequented pub to watch England verses Croatia and had to leave because he was upset by the sheer volume of people chanting ‘fuck England’.

I never understood this. I have a relative - born in an EU country - who speaks of how wonderful the country and people are compared to the English. They hate this country yet spent most of their life here.

My neighbour is Polish and cheered for Croatia very loud so that all the English neighbours would hear him.

After my experiences with my neighbour, who is unpleasantly behaved in many ways - whilst viewing himself as a saint in Church - sometimes wonder if when reports are made of "Go back home then", if there was something said beforehand, though I am aware of random nastiness and victim blaming. I do see cultural differences with my neighbour and their values, there is a definite heavy misogynistic issue going on.

Yep. They won't see themselves as bad people, they will just have to fight "the nazis" and "the far right".

I was chased out of my CLP by that type of male who came along post Corbyn throwing their weight around. I look on SM every so often to keep an eye on them. I don't watch the right locally, so they could be worse for all I know.

All of this going on and on and on about the Left.

You all understand that the BIGGEST threat to the UK's democracy in our generation has been perpetrated by an alliance of Far right and kleptocratic individuals and groups in funding the Leave campaigns around Brexit?

And they haven't gone away?

Indeed, they seem to have further mayhem in sight?

This isn't something I've pulled out of this air, it's the conclusion of the forthcoming DCMS report - google it, there are reports in the Guardian, other papers and the BBC.

It dwarfs anything that has been done - however unpleasant - by the Left, or your neighbour.

It has been NAMED as a threat to the UK's democracy.

Seriously, if you love the UK, rather than being someone who longs to see democracy in the UK deztroyed. And replaced with something else, you should be absolutely incensed by this. And worried.

Mind you, as I keep saying, I think s log of these so-called 'patriots' actually HATE the UK.

Golden ages are born from war, and we have been living in the age born from the Second World War. Victory in war produces peace, peace produces prosperity, prosperity produces plenty, plenty means no desperation, no motivation for hate, increases in tolerance, relaxing of the strict social rules that grow up in times of conflict. And it was the Nazis who were defeated, the logical extreme of western racism, sexism and homophobia, forcing every nation who called themselves their enemies to define themselves by opposition to those values.

It's been a long time since the war, and the generation who learned the lessons in the most direct and brutal manner is all but gone. So the golden ages end, when people forget that prosperity is only purchased by peace and peace is only bought through bloody sacrifice.

Cat, this thread is full of violent brexiteers.

They’re not going to listen to that

Jc is the anti-Christ etc etc.

Jc is the anti-Christ

as in different meanings for JC.

Jeremy Corbyn claims to like Jewish people and women, his behaviour in my opinion is anti both.

Anti-JC is something that will be forever attached to Corbyn.

Golden ages are born from war

And wars aren't (only) from people forgetting about the previous war. See constant stream of wars in Europe prior to WWII.

Hate causes war and lack of prosperity causes wars, in particular the difference between the wealthiest and the poorest. The ruling classes are the ones who seem to have forgotten that phenomenon.

@EmmaKennedy thread on Twitter on the DCMS report DEFINITELY worth reading.

Stand-outs: the invisibility of the destabilisation of democratic political process during the Leave campaign was a huge issue.

Fines of £17 million are being proposed to try and stop wilful misinformation in the future.

Leave was a conduit for money from non-UK based sources.

I hear what you're saying, Helmet but people need to know.

These people who say they are unber-patriots and talk about 'defending' the UK: they're not.

They are at best fools and puppets, being used by people with ill-intent towards the democratic UK or they are knowingly fronts for organisations and individuals, based outside the UK, that want to tear the UK apart and revel in the ruins.

It's now a proven fact.

Wars aren't all about guns and bombs. Modern wars are often about information.

What the DCMS report makes clear is that the UK has been the subject of a very modern, extremely hostile attack.

And this is what one type of modern warfare looks like.

Cat, this thread is full of violent brexiteers.

They’re not going to listen to that

Jc is the anti-Christ etc etc.

And yet JC has been one of the most vocal eurosceptics throughout his career...

Sadly, we might see the BanHammer come out on MN a bit more for posting unsubstantiated shit, too.

Seems that the platforms may be held responsible for stuff posted on them.

🙁

So best get practising linking to shit and substantiating the crap you post, eh?