Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

4per cent of new dads have post natal depression

336 replies

longwayoff · 24/07/2018 09:55

Says LBC quoting a Stanford University study. Expert currently pointing out that as pnd is female hormone related, its unlikely to be pnd. What does mumsnet think? Personally I have a cynical eyebrow raised.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 24/07/2018 21:43

"Does it truly matter what it's called as long as the man gets help?!"
Yes it does, actually. It doesn't take anything away from the man.

bruffin · 24/07/2018 21:43

Isnt the treatment exactly the same whether it is hormonal or situational.

User183737 · 24/07/2018 22:00

Agree with bertrand
Bruffin no. Clinical depression requires drug treatment. Situational depression needs therapy.

bruffin · 24/07/2018 22:03

Situational depressional also needs andidepressants and from what ive just read the treatment for PND includes CBT.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:21

user that is just utter shite I'm afraid.

It doesn't matter hugely what has triggered depression, it matters how you are as an individual maintaining that state. The recommendation in almost all cases is to do SSRI and therapy...though I think the SSRI is mostly for the placebo bump.

The counter examples to this are actual hormonal issues post partum, which are still actively causing a problem. It would be a good idea to stabilise that before attempting to treat the depression, and other comorbidities like PTSD which can constantly reactivate depression if they aren't treated effectively in their own right.

Its therefore very important to distinguish hormonal issues, from PTSD from standard awful depression. It isn't actually important to distinguish clinical depression from situational, if they are in fact separate entities at all, which I doubt.

Redbriefcase · 24/07/2018 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 24/07/2018 22:23

It doesn't take anything away from the man.

But was does saying a man has pnd take away from me? Absolutely nothing.

User183737 · 24/07/2018 22:23

I had psychosis after my baby. I was given 3 types of meds and psychology. For mild/moderate cases im not sure.
Cbt challenges negative thought quickly. But if depression is a reaction to a situation, reversing that situation will sort it, thus it surely isnt a chemical fix. You cant undo a child but you can get someone to change their thinking about it. Thats why i thought therapy.
I think men in general struggle with their role change after babies are born. I do think-meant nicely-that some also find the lack of attention and jealousy of the mother and baby bond hard. I think men shoukd be taught to expect this so it isnt a shock to them, and that the problem isnt them.

User183737 · 24/07/2018 22:28

Melon id say utter shite is spouting about the placebo affect. Ssris made me manic, they clearly do something to the brain. They have saved some peoples lives.

BertrandRussell · 24/07/2018 22:29

Please listen to this"

I really would love it if people listened to this. A thoughtful man talking about his mental health after the birth of a baby he longed for. Not an arse. Nor a jerk.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:30

They are definitely psychoactive - but on average they don't do better than placebo for depression. The ones I was on were quite reasonable at reducing anxiety...but didn't make any difference to my depression....similarly most pregnancy safe anti-nausea stuff is actually antihistamine. Fab at reducing allergic reaction, basically a pants placebo against nausea.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:32

red you seem to have confused depression with selfishness. Please take your opinions back to the 1980's where they belong.

bruffin · 24/07/2018 22:32

But men suffering situational depression pre/post birth cant be taken out of the situation can they. They may need ADs to get through the situation or to get into the right frame of mind for CBT or therapy to work.

User183737 · 24/07/2018 22:33

Are you referring to cetrizine? It has numerous uses. Nausea is one, its used postoperatively.
Most depresdion isnt the severe type which totally halts functioning, and for that drugs or ect are vital, usually in hospital.

BertrandRussell · 24/07/2018 22:33

Bollocks. I can't repost the link. My post at 11.16. Please listen.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:36

lorelai I totally hear you and I do think this discussion is very painful for women who's issues were also not based in hormones, and not so temporary. When your depression peaks years after birth its rather unlike to still be the old hormone issue!

Names do matter - diagnosis matters. Having the diagnosis stripped from you hurts hugely even if it happens years after the fact - as I had cause to discover recently.

None of this inane discussion would be needed if we had even a basic understanding of mental illness in the general population.

I'm sorry this has hurt you anew.

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 24/07/2018 22:39

Thanks @M3lon.

I know it's daft but this thread has had me in floods and dh has received an earful that he probably didn't deserve. I really need to step away from it but I keep coming back when I shouldn't. 🤦🏽‍♀️

Redbriefcase · 24/07/2018 22:50

M3lon, oh I understand depression. So don't be so dismissive of my views. I know depression is real. Post Natal Depression happens to females, not men. Nothing happens to a male body when their partner becomes pregnant. In basic terms, men fertilise the egg, female bodies deal with the consequences of pregnancy. This includes being pregnant and post pregnancy and all the hormonal changes. (Unless I've missed a study where men and women are in tune through pregnancy and they both have similar hormonal changes, I'll stand corrected). Otherwise it's environmental, the mans situation has changed, his place has changed, like I said, it's selfish. Majority of people are in awe of their newborn child, for some women with PND their hormones affect their thinking and they get depression. PND has nothing to do with men, can I just say the 80's made more sense anyway, 2018 is, errm worrying?

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:53

I think people have misunderstood the treatment of situational depression.

I think my illness fell into this category. It was triggered by experiencing a traumatic birth, and then a traumatic post natal period. Becoming ill and capacitated, and having a baby to deal with. The depression only increased as the the physical symptoms reduced and the baby wrangling got easier. In the end I was depressed because I couldn't work, I couldn't get out of bed or dressed some days, I didn't talk to people because I was too ashamed. I robotically performed motherhood with no emotional engagement, because I would sink under the pain if I opened up at all. I didn't hit crisis point till my DD was 3yo.

There was no difference in my actual situation before and after successful treatment. I still had a child, I still had the remaining physical issues (and always will), I still had the memory of my traumatic experience. What changed was my mental state. My interpretation of every single event that happened during each and every day.

I stopped thinking that my DD would be better off without me, and that all I could bring her was misery. I started thinking that she needed me and that I brought her happiness and security. Reality had not changed at all...just my perception of it. My behaviour was different, I interacted with people, took up hobbies again, began to functional at work etc.

So it isn't true that men or women cannot be taken out of the situation of being parents, because being parents isn't the problem. Being depressed parents is the problem. The depression, and perhaps more importantly depression maintaining behaviour CAN be taken out of the picture, leaving the parenting intact.

The single most astonishing thing for me about recovering from depression was that it doesn't just change your perception of the present, it changes your perception of the past. I actually dreaded getting well at one point, because I imagined the tsunami of guilt that would take me when I realised I could have been cured all along etc. How the hell could I ever make up for the first 3 terrible years of my DD's life?

Once I was well again, I didn't see those years as terrible. I mostly didn't see myself as guilty. The depression causes you to disproportionately remember the bad times, and normal brain function causes you (arguably) to focus on the good times. Things literally weren't actually as bad as I had thought! I didn't see myself as guilty, because I never chose or wanted to be depressed. I had sought help and not been successful, until I eventually was. I kept trying even though it hurt like hell and I kept being a Mum even though I couldn't breathe with the pain of it some days. Most days I can think back without crippling guilt.

Teasavedmylife · 24/07/2018 22:58

Depression is not something you choose, so how can it be selfish? Honestly don’t understand that statement at all.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 22:58

red there is nothing in my story (for which I was diagnosed multiple times as having PND) that has a) anything to do with hormones, b) couldn't have happened to my husband.

Men are perfectly capable of becoming depressed. For those who do the fatality rate from depression is higher than it is for women with depression. Having a wife who has just given birth doesn't magically exempt you from coming down with depression. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. Diagnosing the 4% that come down with depression in the time period after their partner has given birth as selfish twats is crass and ignorant in the extreme.

Redbriefcase · 24/07/2018 23:00

M3lon I really feel for you. I hope you feel better soon, we are all human trying to make our way through life the best way we can. It's hard being a parent, it turns your life upside down

LorelaiVictoriaGilmore · 24/07/2018 23:01

@Redbriefcase

It took a bunch of medication and a lot of therapy for me to realise that I was sick not selfish.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 23:04

I need to follow lorelais good example and bow out. Its too emotive and I won't sleep tonight if I don't stop.

M3lon · 24/07/2018 23:05

xpost of comedy value there! Oi Lore take your own good advice.