4per cent of new dads have post natal depression

[longwayoff]

Says LBC quoting a Stanford University study. Expert currently pointing out that as pnd is female hormone related, its unlikely to be pnd. What does mumsnet think? Personally I have a cynical eyebrow raised.

Or maybe mentally ill men are searching for a term to describe the total hell they are going through and lighting on the only term out there at the moment that comes close to describing what they are suffering?

I just find it amusing how many ladies on here don’t actually seem to know what postnatal depression actually is.

“It’s due to hormones”

🤔

@WarPigeon

Agreed.

It’s not only due to hormones they play a factor , it’s birth trauma , the overwhelming changes to your body , the mental and emotional strain of a new life you are responsible for but hormones do play a part .

I didn't have birth trauma, my body pinged back, it kicked in 7 months after the birth when my hormones were stable and my periods were back.

So, I guess I had whatever men have rather than pnd... 🤷🏻‍♀️

If that’s the case ichifanny then surely we should be classing women as having ppd instead of pnd (which even the nhs agrees men can develop pnd)

Not necessarily lorelai - there’s a general consensus that a woman postpartum up to a year can have PND begin. This isn’t reflected in the DSM criteria but it is generally accepted. If you breastfed your hormones are not back to pre pregnancy levels until some time after you’ve stopped. It takes several months for all hormonal after effects of pregnancy to stop and some can be permanently altered.

I hope you got the help you needed and are recovered

I think they should only diagnose PND when it’s medically proven with blood tests then rather than an catch all of depression around the birth of a child.

My own daughter was 9 months old when I became ill actually.

Or maybe mentally ill men are searching for a term to describe the total hell they are going through and lighting on the only term out there at the moment that comes close to describing what they are suffering?

And yes this could well be the case, and I don’t think anyone would be telling a man off who is seriously suffering for using the wrong terminology. I can understand why an individual would use the term and I hope he’d get help.

What I’m talking about is having that term adopted into medical terminology to apply to men. I don’t think that is helpful.

I had brilliant help from a charity that supports men and women with... pnd and, errrr, whatever it is that men have. Thankfully, I recovered within about a year. But the total agony that was that year leaves me totally bemused as to why anyone would care what someone that sick calls their illness as long as they get help.

Anyway I’m out the usual mumsnet women are like incubators pushed to the side the minute they give birth and god forbid you don’t get on with it without thinking what about the menz.

I think they should only diagnose PND when it’s medically proven with blood tests then rather than an catch all of depression around the birth of a child.

Eh?

I think they should only diagnose PND when it’s medically proven with blood tests

There is no blood test.

PND is diagnosed using things like the Edinburgh depression scale. What sets it apart is that it occurs in the aftermath of birth.

It may seem pedantic but it is important from a medical perspective to have diagnostic clarity.

I suppose like lots of stuff. Do most patients care what receptors their breast cancers have? Maybe not but it’s important to an oncologist. For PND vs Male depression you can expect the former to be treated slightly differently to the latter, so it does matter.

I think this while discussion shows how badly mental health issues are addressed in our society.

Can you imagine someone with a broken arm announcing they had a broken leg, and then lots of people claiming it didn't matter whether you call it an arm or leg broken it all needs treatment?

Yes, both are a problem. Yes, both need treating. One isn't more important than the other. But it's not the same thing. It doesn't necessarily need the same treatment (though there may be overlaps). Research into one thing necessarily help the other. To take both seriously we need to acknowledge them both, not lump it together.

But I constantly see anything to do with mental health lumped together as if it's all the same thing, so it's probably a losing battle. We need to start taking mental health as seriously as physical health, which means proper research/diagnosis/treatment of widely different conditions.

I admit I'm in a horrible mood this evening..

But I'm not saying 'what about the men?', I'm saying 'what about the sick people?' and I think that turning it into a battle of the sexes is screwed up. Sure, we should get a better term for male pnd, but that's just not the main issue.

Ok, I'm going to go relieve my feelings by finding a member of my family to shout out. The internet has suffered enough...

Sorry...

Don’t apologise! I’m just trying to explain why stuff that may seem pedantic and daft often isn’t. :) that’s just my inner scientific pedant talking....

I get your point bowlofbabelfish that diagnostic clarity is needed for medical professionals but surely that’s achieved by saying “this man has PND” or “this woman who has given birth has PND” or whatever? Why is a different label needed?
It might even need more clarification in that “this woman who has given birth has hormonal PND” and “this woman who has given birth has non-hormonal PND”

At the moment the NHS and doctors already diagnose men with PND so I would assume that there has been some consensus in the medical profession that it
doesn’t cause confusion... but perhaps that’s me being naive

This isn't about men v. women, it's about understanding mental health problems and ensuring that everyone can access the help they need.

I totally agree @LorelaiVictoriaGilmore but diagnosing men with PND isn't going to get them the treatment they need because the treatment for PND and the treatment for situational depression are not the same.

As an example, my DH went to his GP first when he was struggling after my DD's birth. He was prescribed Prozac and struggled through the side effects only to find it wasn't really helpful. I mentioned it to my specialist mental health team who explained that SSRIs aren't really appropriate in the case of situational depression because there's no chemical imbalance to be straightened out, just someone in an extremely difficult situation who needs support getting through it. They took him on as a patient instead, got him off the Prozac and gave him CBT, taking therapy and occupational therapy. It made all the difference.

Whereas for me, with actual PND, Prozac and Propranalol plus coming off the Pill made all the difference. I didn't need talking therapy. I had no problems with the situation. I wasn't suffering after the birth, I wasn't struggling to adjust to my new life - all those things were totally fine once I was on the right medication regime and the hormone imbalance had been addressed.

I'm not trying to take anything away from men or non-birthing parents who are struggling with their mental health after having a baby. Nor am I saying that women who have situational depression or PTSD after giving birth are suffering any less than women with PND. I just think it's important that people get the correct diagnosis in order to access the right treatment.

Sorry @LorelaiVictoriaGilmore I just saw that you'd bowed out of the discussion - apologies for @ing you

@peachgreen obviously depends on the case (or doctor perhaps?) as I was prescribed an SSRI for situational depression and found the CBT hugely beneficial for my PND!

Maybe all depression is just too hard to diagnose exactly what it is so perhaps doctors use a scattergun approach

@Lifeisarollercoasterbaby That's really interesting - I'm only going on what the specialist shared with me but I think you're right about the scattergun approach. I think what this thread is mostly proving is that we need more research and funding for mental health treatment all round!

@peachgreen

Don't worry at all. I'm just hot, exhausted and cross!

I don't disagree with you... I think we're just doing the best we can with the terminology we currently have. And if we start differentiating different kinds of what we currently call pnd, I would expect some women to fall into the category of 'situational depression' as well as men. If different terminology leads to better treatment, I'm all for it!

Does it truly matter what it's called as long as the man gets help?! It doesn't take anything away from women.