To be surprised at how much bullying is treated as inevitable?

[Spaghettijumper]

On threads where, say, a boy is wearing 'girly' clothing or is in some way different, there seems to be a lot of responses saying 'he/she will be bullied' as though that's a good reason not to do it/not to allow the child to do it.

It surprises me - do people really live in such fear of other people's responses?

My son wears dresses and yes people make silly comments but there's no way I'd say he shouldn't wear dresses because of that - surely that's just teaching him that other people get to decide what he wears? He just brushes the comments off and over time no one even notices the dresses any more. The vast majority of people say absolutely nothing, or even compliment him on his dresses - there are a lot of kind and friendly people in the world!

In my experience, no matter what you do, someone will have a negative reaction/a nasty comment - if you live your life anticipating the negativity and trying to avoid it, there's a lot you'll miss out on.

AIBU to think the response to possible bullying isn't to go ahead and give the bullies what they want ahead of time (ie total conformity) but to develop the resilience to say 'yes you don't like what I do, but I really don't care'?

Boys wearing dresses is hardly a ridiculous concept, in historical terms trousers are a fairly modern invention. Many cultures wore some form of robe, some still do, even in Scotland kilts are traditional dress for events like weddings. Honestly I'd rather more men wore dresses - then maybe the designers would start making them with proper pockets!

I have to say often the reason a child is bullied isn't the strange clothes, or unusual hobby people attribute it to but their lack of confidence or social awkwardness. The disadvantage of flying under the radar is that it undermines their confidence even more - it gives the impression they're not acceptable as they are. That said I think it's more confidence with a child who has developmental issues who may want to blend in but not understand how to.

One of my major worries is that if bullies say something negative to my son about what he wears and he comes home and tells me and I say 'you should stop wearing that' - aren't I saying that the bullies are essentially right? That he has to do what they tell him?

One boy did make a comment to him a while back, something along the lines of 'dresses are for girls'. My son's response was 'why?', the boy couldn't answer and that was the end of it! He did tell me about it and we talked about how people think only some people can wear certain clothes so they can sometimes be a bit funny about it and that was the end of the conversation. He hasn't had anything worse than that so far. I think sometimes the fear of bullying can be worse than the reality.

Again, your DH is an adult and therefore presumably equipped to deal with negative reactions. Your son is a child, I'm guessing not the teenager experimenting with his look and testing the boundaries of authority and peer pressure thrown up as a false equivalency by some pps here. In school you aren't going to be there to say 'ignore them son, you wear what you want' and what if the negative reaction comes from an adult not just children?

While I'm all for autonomy re choice of clothes for everyone, like I say we're not there yet re boys in dresses and it wouldn't hurt for you to explain there are times when we all have to conform: in the workplace, certain social settings where there is a dress code, we can't rock up in slashed leathers and chains and safety pins regardless if that's the way we prefer to and usually dress. It's our duty to teach our kids what is and isn't appropriate in dress and behaviour in different settings from an early age. You wouldn't let him go out in the snow and ice wearing sandals even though that's what he chose to wear that day would you?

Sounds like you're doing well though, @Spaghettijumper, it's heartening to have people like you around.

I'm guessing your boy knows of course there's the option of stopping wearing dresses. He just doesn't want to, and there's no reason not to.

My daughter was quite determined not to wear the (non compulsory) school uniform even though everyone else does. I thought she'd last a week or two and then wear her uniform but she never did, despite people continually asking her about it (not bullying). She knows it's compulsory next year in the juniors and is fine with that. I think it's great to know your own mind.

No I wouldn't let him wear clothing that wasn't right for the weather because that may end up in him being ill or injured. Obviously I don't want that.

What if the negative reaction comes from an adult? = I'm not sure what you mean? As in, he should change what he wants because an adult doesn't approve?

Of course he could stop wearing dresses whenever he wanted.

@ElementalHalfLife - I'm struggling to word this question - do you feel that it's the duty of a parent to train a child to make choice based solely on how other people will react?

I’ve not been on here that long and I’m pretty surprised at the attitude towards adults and children laughing at, commenting on or just plain being a dick about someone looking or acting differently to them or the majority.

I think a lot of people could stop acting like dicks and raising their children to act like dicks.

I think that the important thing in this, as in so many things is choice and awareness. It's fine for a boy to wear a dress if he wants to. But is is irresponsible of a parent not to talk to him before he does about the reaction he might get from other people. He needs to be mature enough to be able to decide for himself whether he cares about what other people say or not. 7 is borderline, IMHO. Any younger and in my house the dresses would be "home clothes". Like my dd's famous trailer teach wardrobe acquired from charity shops-she could change into the leopard skin
crop as soon as she got it-she wasn't wearing it on the bus. 9 or 10? Then I'd probably leave it to him. But there would have been plenty of conversation first.

I'm not sure how I feel about boys in dresses, but I understand your point of view.

I've recently had a lot of discussion with my 10 year old son around 'boys clothes' and 'girls clothes'. His favourite colour is pink, he loves pink and likes to choose pink shirts from the 'boys' section in Next.
We went out for new shoes and chose some trainers that were dark grey with a bright pink trim. I asked him if he thought others might tease him if he chose them. His response was 'I get made fun of anyway, so the only difference is I'll be made fun while I'm wearing clothes I like'.

He has ASD and doesn't understand why people would have a problem with him wearing pink shoes when girls wear blue shoes. He makes a valid point.

spider He does make a valid point, but I would say your situation and your handling of the situation is different to those who are all 'ooh my boy chooses himself and happens to want to wear the most stereotypically girly items of clothing all by themselves, how progressive we are. Isn't it awful if anyone says that others might find it unusual'

'His response was 'I get made fun of anyway, so the only difference is I'll be made fun while I'm wearing clothes I like'. '

Your son is very perceptive @SpiderDance.

I think the idea that changing the way you dress will ensure you won't be bullied doesn't make sense tbh. Bullying isn't really about what the target wears - some kids wear very unusual clothing and are never bullied because bullies know not to mess with them. I had very cheap clothes, glasses and braces growing up and was never bullied at school because if someone said 'Your clothes are awful' I probably would have just given them a funny look and walked on. I never felt like anybody had the right to comment on my clothes, never mind expecting me to actually take notice of it!

I would certainly prepare my child for negative comments if he wanted to wear dresses for example and I'd work on his resilience but I certainly wouldn't prevent him from doing something important to him for fear of a negative reaction. Any more than I'd stop him from doing something he might not succeed at. You don't build resilience by removing all obstacles from a child's path.

It's interesting that you use the word 'progressive' as well @MaisyPops. Do you consider being 'progressive' to be a bad thing? (I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'progressive' btw)

'Isn't it awful if anyone says that others might find it unusual''
I don't think it's awful that people say that others find it unusual. I'm aware that it's unusual for a boy to wear a dress. That wasn't my point.

My point was that I don't think it's the best decision to tell a child to change what they want because bullies tell him to. That seems to put things the wrong way around.

I was raised to fit in. Told i should/shouldn’t wear/do x/y because people might laugh, think i’m silly, not like me etc.

It didn’t lead to me fitting in, being popular, or not being bullied. It led to a lack of self confidence, and a lifetime of making the most innoffensive choices and remaining quiet in social sotuations in order not to stick out.

I ended up getting bullied more as a pre teen who’s mum guides their fashion choices ends up anything but fashionable.

My kids make their own choices. Even if i worry- like when 8 yo dd got a pixie crop, i allow it and we deal with any issues after. Fortunately she seems to have learned that being different is no bad thing. Many times her friends have followed her lead- there are now 3 girls in her class now with shorter hair- and she laughs at the narrow minded idiots who can’t be persuaded that she is female.

In an ideal world we could all dress as we please without comment but life isn’t like that. If a boy wears a dress the fact is people will comment as it is not the norm and it is quite likely that he will be made fun of especially as he gets older. How resilient the OPs son is and how he copes only she can tell but it is certainly a difficult road to travel.

My DS doesn't seem to find it at all difficult. I think people will comment no matter what you do, really, but the important thing is your own reaction to it. If you constantly feel you have to change and avoid comments then you are going to be pretty anxious. If you think 'oh well, I'll do as I please and if others comment, so what' then you can just get on with things. I don't think watching out for other people's shallow judgements is a good use of anyone's energy tbh.

“My point was that I don't think it's the best decision to tell a child to change what they want because bullies tell him to.“

I don’t think that you should do that either. But I do think that you need to be very sure that the child concerned has the maturity and the information to make a truly informed decision.

My feeling @reallyanotherone is that your family loves you and knows you best - if they don't accept you, then how are you going to ever feel accepted? I definitely feel it's my job as a parent to shape how my children relate to others - politeness, kindness etc - but it's not my role to make them fear the judgement of others to the extent that they change their own preferences to avoid it.

These threads always bring out the people who rant about transgender activists forcing children to conform to gender stereotypes and 'transing' children because they wear dresses, yet refuse to let their son wear a dress

I also admire your ‘who cares’ attitude and agree about resilience however, I do think that you need to consider that your son might not be as strong as you are and that he will face difficulties as he gets older.

'I don’t think that you should do that either. But I do think that you need to be very sure that the child concerned has the maturity and the information to make a truly informed decision.'

This comment makes it seem like he's doing something really dangerous - that he needs to make an 'informed decision' because of some sort of consequence. Is that what you mean?

I have tried to raise my children to not tolerate bullies.
My daughter uploaded a truly awful photo of herself on Snapchat and people "tried" to take the piss out of her at school but she just said "so" and carried on about her day.

Another time she was sitting eating lunch at school and a group of popular girls told her she needed to move because they wanted to sit there. She refused to move and they had to sit and eat/talk with her right in the middle.

I changed everything about myself to try and stop the bullying...it didn't work, because I wasn't the problem...the bullies were.

I think every single poster who says children should be made to conform to stereotypes by their parents should actually go home tonight and make sure they haven't modelled to their children that only people who conform have value.

I mean if my parents told me to cut my hair to avoid bullying then that basically gives me free reign to bully someone else who's hair cut I don't like....and so it goes around and around.

Change bullies, not victims....not ever.