Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be surprised at how much bullying is treated as inevitable?

366 replies

Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 12:38

On threads where, say, a boy is wearing 'girly' clothing or is in some way different, there seems to be a lot of responses saying 'he/she will be bullied' as though that's a good reason not to do it/not to allow the child to do it.

It surprises me - do people really live in such fear of other people's responses?

My son wears dresses and yes people make silly comments but there's no way I'd say he shouldn't wear dresses because of that - surely that's just teaching him that other people get to decide what he wears? He just brushes the comments off and over time no one even notices the dresses any more. The vast majority of people say absolutely nothing, or even compliment him on his dresses - there are a lot of kind and friendly people in the world!

In my experience, no matter what you do, someone will have a negative reaction/a nasty comment - if you live your life anticipating the negativity and trying to avoid it, there's a lot you'll miss out on.

AIBU to think the response to possible bullying isn't to go ahead and give the bullies what they want ahead of time (ie total conformity) but to develop the resilience to say 'yes you don't like what I do, but I really don't care'?

OP posts:
Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:02

'They do notice. They’re just too polite to comment on it. But you can be sure they’re talking and laughing behind your back.'

You're probably right. But again, so what? If people want to talk and laugh behind my back, why would I care about that? That's a genuine question btw.

OP posts:
User183737 · 23/07/2018 13:02

I can guarantee if all boys wore dresses and it was normal and common, then these parents would find another way to be different

Johnnyfinland · 23/07/2018 13:02

I agree OP. As a teenager I wore some horrific ‘experimental’ outfits and while my parents might have raised an eyebrow they never said “don’t do that or people will laugh at you”. I don’t understand why it’s so important to some people to be seen as a picture of conformity. I’d rather be true to myself and get laughed at than tone myself down and pretend to be something I’m not

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:03

Yes he doesn't earn his own money, but he does choose his own clothes. I thought most children did?

OP posts:
User183737 · 23/07/2018 13:03

Theyre laughing at your kid not you. Thats something you should be bothered about

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:04

It's interesting that people think this is coming from me for some reason. I don't know why that is - I have no interest in him wearing a dress, why would I?

OP posts:
Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:05

'Theyre laughing at your kid not you. Thats something you should be bothered about'

Why? Again that's a genuine question.

OP posts:
Mookatron · 23/07/2018 13:06

I agree with you OP.

This is why things never change.

The supposed non existent boy on the other thread whose parents chose for him is another matter but if your kid wants to wear something, not letting them because they will be laughed at is teaching them to be unimaginative, conformist drones. And is actually siding with bullies.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:09

That's how I feel @Mookatron. Wearing dresses was entirely his choice - his dad doesn't wear dresses, in fact I barely wear them and there's no reason I would choose them for him, I would naturally buy 'boys' clothes if I were choosing his clothes as I wouldn't even think twice about it. He chose the dresses and I have no intention of telling him not to do what he wants in order to avoid the judgement of people who don't even know him.

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2018 13:09

Those that would laugh about a child wearing clothes that aren't the norm, can I ask what it is you're laughing about? I can see that you would hold negative opinions about the parents for allowing it (given the responses here), but what is the laughing about?

HarrietSchulenberg · 23/07/2018 13:09

Why do people get so het up about a little boy wearing a dress? It's just clothing and is more comfortable than trousers in this weather.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:12

I'm not sure people would actually laugh at a child @AssassinatedBeauty - I think people imagine others laughing, but I'm not sure there are that many actual people nasty enough to laugh at a child, are there?

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 23/07/2018 13:13

YANBU. Bullying is character building. I was never more proud than when my then 3 year old announced 'I don't care what other people think' when a family member was t trying to convi CE him to do something by telling him that other people would he was silly if he couldn't do it. Parents who teach their children to fear other people's reactions over silly things (and often demonise parents who accept nonconformist from their children) are the ones who are setting their children up for mental health problems not the other way around.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:15

There's a lot said about the importance of confidence, but how can a child be confident if they're constantly worrying about how everyone will react? It must be exhausting to live like that.

OP posts:
User183737 · 23/07/2018 13:17

I wouldnt laugh. Id eyeroll at the pseudoliberal attitudes of tge parents. How exactly does he pick clothes? You're supposed to guide him to navigate the world with ease. How can he do that if you aren't teaching him. Will he get a job turning up for an interview? Probably not, unless youre trying to make him trans, in which case equality laws will protect him. Will he be on a combination of hormone theraies in a few years, all because you deliberately didn't model gender role expectations?
If you want to be progressive do so through yourself, not through an inmocent kid whose teachers will automatically think of as 'that kid with the ridiculous family'

User183737 · 23/07/2018 13:19

And it would be nice if we 'didnt care about anything' but unfortunately that reaction to being told to do anything doesnt bode well for education or work does it?

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2018 13:22

There's a huge leap between a primary school aged child wearing clothes that aren't the norm for their sex, and not being able to get a job as an adult!

Children notice the world around them, and in all likelihood as they get older they start to be aware and then care about the norms of their society. Most will probably start to conform, more or less, or learn that there are times and places where people are less tolerant of difference and adapt their style accordingly.

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:24

He picks clothes by walking around the shop. He sometimes chooses trousers, sometimes dresses, depending on what he likes.

I'm not really worried about interviews at the moment, seeing as he's 7.

You seem to think it comes from me user, why?

If the teachers think of him at 'that kid with the ridiculous family' that's on them, not me. I don't care.

OP posts:
Mookatron · 23/07/2018 13:24

It's not about trans issues - or actually maybe telling boys that being a girl/woman = wearing a dress is actually the kind of thing that kicks off gender dysphoria.

So you let your boy wear a dress and somebody laughs at him and HE decides whether he's going to figuratively say 'fuck you' or change his behaviour accordingly. Whichever it is, the person who laughed is the one who's wrong. A dress is just a dress. Just like trousers are now just trousers (but only relatively recently).

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:26

'And it would be nice if we 'didnt care about anything' but unfortunately that reaction to being told to do anything doesnt bode well for education or work does it?'

This seems to be a massive leap. I never said anything about not caring about anything. He certainly cares about his friends and his family and his schoolwork - things that are worth caring about. But the opinion of people who want to laugh at him or think he's ridiculous? Nah, that's really not worth it.

OP posts:
User183737 · 23/07/2018 13:28

Does he come food shopping too? No doubt he picks lots of chocolate and treats then, given thats what kids like. Do you serve him crisps and chocolate for dinner when he wants it, because thats his choice, then let him go to school obese, brcause 'you dont care'? Or is it just a point with gendered clothing you make? Does he choose when to go to bed, and if he showers or not?

Original poster
Spaghettijumper · 23/07/2018 13:31

Those things are to do with health User and it's up to me to look after his health. It's pretty obvious that I should control his choices there. What I'm trying to understand is, why I should stop him from choosing the clothes he wants? My view is that stopping him from making choices in order to avoid bullying doesn't make sense.

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 23/07/2018 13:35

@User183747 he wouldn't get a job if he turned up wearing shorts and a t-shirt, or sneakers, or loud checks either. Should all those be banned too? I should probably go out and buy my son some business suits. Should throw out his brown shoes as well because he'd never get a decent job if he turned up for an interview in brown shoes.

Mookatron · 23/07/2018 13:35

There is no practical reason that boys 'don't' wear dresses.

Plenty of practical reasons not to eat too much chocolate etc.

bigKiteFlying · 23/07/2018 13:37

DD1 wares different style of clothing to most children her age - I think the reason she has the confidence to do so and not care, despite hitting teenage years, is because she had option of conforming when she was younger.

Same with DS sometime he wants to conform and ware same as other times he’s happy to stand out with something.

I was bullied at school – at schools that claimed to have no bullying problems – and it was horribly negative experience that was truly miserable. I was less myself for years because of the lack of confidence and not wanting to draw attention to myself.

The early school years were the worst for my chidlren desperatly needing to fit in and confrom

Some schools are good at inclusiveness and kindness to each other others really shit at dealing with bullying – within schools you have variations with teachers and classmates. This child is just starting there is no real way to gauage how receptive to difference or how well they deal with bullying before they send boy in a dress and it this 4 year old boy who will have to cope with it.

.

I don't think bullying is envitable but so frequently poorly dealt with and having experienced it something to be avoided and certainly never actively courted.

Though I don't doubt there are personalities and children who would thrive on attention of being different - that thread more about the parents needs to be different than the child's.