To be surprised at how much bullying is treated as inevitable?

[Spaghettijumper]

On threads where, say, a boy is wearing 'girly' clothing or is in some way different, there seems to be a lot of responses saying 'he/she will be bullied' as though that's a good reason not to do it/not to allow the child to do it.

It surprises me - do people really live in such fear of other people's responses?

My son wears dresses and yes people make silly comments but there's no way I'd say he shouldn't wear dresses because of that - surely that's just teaching him that other people get to decide what he wears? He just brushes the comments off and over time no one even notices the dresses any more. The vast majority of people say absolutely nothing, or even compliment him on his dresses - there are a lot of kind and friendly people in the world!

In my experience, no matter what you do, someone will have a negative reaction/a nasty comment - if you live your life anticipating the negativity and trying to avoid it, there's a lot you'll miss out on.

AIBU to think the response to possible bullying isn't to go ahead and give the bullies what they want ahead of time (ie total conformity) but to develop the resilience to say 'yes you don't like what I do, but I really don't care'?

Race
No need to be obtuse. Like op, youre acting deliberately gormless to avoid the point.
Dresses on boys is a ridiculous concept and as i said, if all boys wear dresses i guarantee ops son would become a goth or similar

And so what if the son became a goth!

So what if people laugh though?

I agree with this up to a point. I wouldn't say I was ever bullied, but I was teased about various things (curiously never about my ginger hair - it's not inevitable!). Some of them bothered me, some didn't, depending, I think, on how sensitive I felt myself about each individual issue. So when people teased me about my unfashionable clothes (which I chose to wear and didn't want to change to please other people), I felt that I would rather continue to be teased than give them up. When people teased me about the fact that I was never allowed to do lots of things because of my overprotective parents, that really rankled because I was angry about that myself, and criticism from other kids felt like they thought I was to blame for it, when I really wasn't. If the OP's son genuinely likes wearing dresses, he may well not be fazed by unkind comments (although he might not get any, especially if he's very young, as younger children tend to be very accepting).

'Dresses on boys is a ridiculous concept?'

Why?

Seriously, why?

Nothing, if it was a self determined move, which it wouldnt be, because it is driven by a parental unmet (abusive) need for their child to be 'special' or 'different' in some way.
Perhaps dad should go to work in dresses. To see the reactions his son would get. Not sure what kind of man would advise it to be honest

Goodness. "Abusive" to let a child wear what they want? Did you read @Spaghettijumper's posts where she clearly explained that she's not choosing clothes for her child or pushing her opinion on what to choose? Yet you're insisting that there's a parental ("abusive") need for the child to be different?

I agree that some schools deal badly with bullying bigKite. My point is that it's unlikely that there was anything about you that 'attracted' the bullying specifically - even if you changed your clothes or said different things they would still have targeted you. So there's no real point in going around changing yourself to suit bullies - it makes far more sense to develop confidence so that the bullying washes off you.

When I was at school some people tried to bully me but it just didn't work because I didn't care what they thought. They got bored very fast.

'I agree with this up to a point. I wouldn't say I was ever bullied, but I was teased about various things (curiously never about my ginger hair - it's not inevitable!). Some of them bothered me, some didn't, depending, I think, on how sensitive I felt myself about each individual issue. So when people teased me about my unfashionable clothes (which I chose to wear and didn't want to change to please other people), I felt that I would rather continue to be teased than give them up. When people teased me about the fact that I was never allowed to do lots of things because of my overprotective parents, that really rankled because I was angry about that myself, and criticism from other kids felt like they thought I was to blame for it, when I really wasn't. If the OP's son genuinely likes wearing dresses, he may well not be fazed by unkind comments (although he might not get any, especially if he's very young, as younger children tend to be very accepting).'

I think this is a good point. If I were forcing my son to wear dresses I think he would feel very differently about it. I would never do that - what would be the point? It's what he wants and if people comment he just sort of shrugs - they can say what they like but he likes it so he doesn't give a shit essentially! To be fair his close friends don't say a word about it, it's like they don't even notice.

Your points are actually helping me to understand @User183737 - you seem to be having a very strong negative reaction to it, which I don't quite get but it at least gives me an idea of what people are thinking when they are so opposed to it. It's interesting that you feel that it must be coming from me - even though I keep telling you it's not you still feel it must be. I'm not sure why you can't get your head around it but again it helps me to understand where the strong feelings are coming from.

I'm with you OP. Very surprised by this attitude!

My DH has worn dresses in the past, not to work but in social situations, for halloween etc and he's not really had any negative reactions at all. His workplace is lovely - if he went in a dress no one would say a word I think.

I just dont get why its an option? Why make it one? I mean seriously, why? He would be less potentially damahed by you saying, no the boys clothes are over there. Simples, he doesnt think about it again. So in that way, youre choosing it, by allowing the option. To me, it wouldnt even be something id consider.

I think the dresses on boys thing has derailed my original point somewhat - it's a rather contentious issue in itself and seems to make some people rather angry. But in general, with other issues, my feeling is that telling children to change themselves in order to avoid bullying is at best a short term fix. It also sends the child the message that they must toe the line and do what other people think they should do in order to avoid nastiness - which I don't think it a great message to send.

I want my children to be clean, polite, kind and friendly and I will ask them to change behaviour that's rude or disruptive. But for anything else I want them to feel that I'll support them in being who they are, even if others try to bully them for it. I think your family should be the people who just accept you rather than the people who tell you to be different in order to fit in.

So, i have a girl with short hair gasp. Her choice.

Pretty much everyone assumes she is a boy, even to the point of strangers arguing with us in the street.

All those who think parents who dress their boys in dresses should expect bullying, piss taking and laughing behind backs, how do i deal with it?

Jokes on them really isn’t it?

It's an option because it's in the shop and he sees he sister wearing dresses too. I don't see why I should stop him from choosing what he wants. You say he would be 'less potentially damaged' but I don't see how wearing clothes that he chooses to wear would damage him? Could you explain that bit?

It's interesting the strength of the negative reactions.

I really don't see the issue in a child choosing what they want to wear, it's not harming anyone that he occasionally likes to wear dresses and I think it says a lot about the type of parent the op is. When did confidence and individuality become bad things to teach children?

Even if the op is doing it for the kicks, even if they moved on to something else when all the other boys in the school start wearing dresses too, even if the whole school is laughing at a child choosing his own clothes... Why does it matter so much to you that you would get so angry about it? Why shouldn't a boy wear a dress if he wants to?

It's peddling the idea that you should change yourself instead of challenging the bullies' attitudes. And trying to change yourself (for no real reason) can be extremely damaging.

Why wouldn't it be an option? Because it is "for women/girls" and therefore demeaning?

Seriously - its a piece of material cut and sewn a certain way. That's all. Not heroin.

I get your point but i see my place as setting them up for the reality of fitting in. Secondary school is very harsh on boys in particular, brought up in that way. I get your intentions are good but so is mine. I say that as the parent of a 13yo asd boy who will not be able to change his attitude to 'not care'. He will care, he will feel shit, he will become depressed, he will isolate himself and not go out. At home he is free to be who he wants however that spills into their identity at school, and that is the target. So bullies are bastards, yes. But in a rough as fuck school with rugby and football players where my kid will be called a poof and a dick sucker for 5 long years for being told its ok to do those things, yes, i think and agenda of free will and being yourself is naive and unfair.
So yes, bullying is inevitable. And to me the parents job is to help my kid fly below the radar. Wearing a dress is not an option imo

Well yes @Mookatron, I was thinking that telling a child not to wear what he wants because of what other people think is potentially a lot more damaging (for his confidence and for his feeling that I think well of him) than just letting him wear the clothes that he likes.

Schools are heirarchal, as a human species we have to survive just as any other species, bullying someone because they are different is done as part of establishing status and is a sort of dominance strategy to implicitly say you're not part of my group so keep away and youre a good target to show others how powerful I am , if someone doesn't understand something or someone then this also makes them feel uncomfortable. By passing on the message of individuality being ok and hopefully explicitly condoning the bullies actions to your son and explaining to your son why they are being mean then you are making a stand against bullies and teaching your child resilience, strength , confidence etc. youre doing a great job and hopefully contributing to shaping a better society. my son likes the colour pink and he is open about this, why should he not like pink? pink being feminine is a social construction, by saying no you cant like pink its a girls colour or shhh dont tell anyone you like pink this is telling him he is not allowed to be himself not a message that i want to give to him , i commend you , just have the confidence that youre doing the right thing.

That's fair enough @User183737 I can see why you feel that way. That situation sounds really tough.

In my experience trying to 'fly under the radar' doesn't really work - children who are trying hard to disappear are often targeted because of that timidness. I wasn't bullied because I just did what I did and the bullies knew there was no point in targeting me, it was a waste of time.

That said I understand that your son's ASD complicates things majorly. It's really not so simple in that circumstance.

Even if the op is doing it for the kicks, even if they moved on to something else when all the other boys in the school start wearing dresses too, even if the whole school is laughing at a child choosing his own clothes... Why does it matter so much to you

You really have to ask why we'd mind someone putting their kid through that for kicks?

A child in my DS's old school wore dresses and no one cared (he was 6). I think in his current school no one would be bullied either. Even if they were it's something to prepare a child for but it shouldn't prevent them doing something they really want to do.

That might be the right choice for your child. Presumabl;y the OP is making the right choice for hers. My eldest is a crowd follower - the right thing for him is to encourage him to think for himself and trust his own judgement. To question and consider the opinions of others and decide for himself what he believes. My youngest loves dance and musical theatre and singing. My place is to support him in having the confidence to follow his dreams and ignore those who say those things "are only for girls" (they say other less kind things too). Damned if I'm going to forbid him from ballet and insist he does football because he's got a dick.