To be surprised at how much bullying is treated as inevitable?

[Spaghettijumper]

On threads where, say, a boy is wearing 'girly' clothing or is in some way different, there seems to be a lot of responses saying 'he/she will be bullied' as though that's a good reason not to do it/not to allow the child to do it.

It surprises me - do people really live in such fear of other people's responses?

My son wears dresses and yes people make silly comments but there's no way I'd say he shouldn't wear dresses because of that - surely that's just teaching him that other people get to decide what he wears? He just brushes the comments off and over time no one even notices the dresses any more. The vast majority of people say absolutely nothing, or even compliment him on his dresses - there are a lot of kind and friendly people in the world!

In my experience, no matter what you do, someone will have a negative reaction/a nasty comment - if you live your life anticipating the negativity and trying to avoid it, there's a lot you'll miss out on.

AIBU to think the response to possible bullying isn't to go ahead and give the bullies what they want ahead of time (ie total conformity) but to develop the resilience to say 'yes you don't like what I do, but I really don't care'?

Support his choices. Arm him for the consequences. Be prepared to go to battle for him if that's what he wants.

The negative responses are just another version of "don't go out dressed like that." He might change his mind - which is perfectly understandable.

you can’t wear that because you are a boy

Yes you should because he’s 7.

is that so incredibly hard to understand. He’s a child and as such maybe for now he’s in a small school bubble and most 7 year olds are accepting and kind.

however unless you home school him he’s going to eventually go to high school where he will unfortunately meet many teenagers who won’t be so accepting.

True bullies are vile! True we should all stand up to bullies and true bullies can bullyabiut anything but allowing your boy to wear a dress now is like pinning a ‘kick me’ postit on his back for the future.

Have you any idea why parents of teens understood ‘The Inbetweeners’ because many kids are like that as teens. Most grow into wonderful adults but they don’t get there straight away.

I cannot understand why you cannot see this but guessing he’s your oldest and just now you are both liking the attention and the uniqueness of your position.

He may not thank you later op.

You posted aibu? Lots of posters, not all, think you are and I bet the ones supporting you don’t actually let their lads wear dresses either to school.

Just reflect on other views for a moment. Especially if he is your oldest child op. And you have no experience of teens.

'Clearly the subliminal message was boys SHOULD wear dresses and that is certainly what he would have heard.'

You know the subliminal message of a conversation you didn't hear? That's quite a skill!

I didn't discourage or prevent him from wearing a dress, I said some people might be mean about it and he knows that. He still chose to wear a dress and actually nobody has been mean about it - he's had literally one question.

Surely the 'subliminal message' of 'most people expect boys not to wear dresses but you can do what you want' or something like that' is also that it's fine to wear it? As in, people have expectations but you don't have to go with them? It seems to be essentially the same as what I said tbh!

Who says he'll wear a dress in secondary school Seasawride? - he might, or he might not. But that'll be up to him.

I know bullies can be awful - my ongoing and constant point is that the solution to that isn't to get the child to change - the only message you send with that is that the bullies are right and that the child should make themselves different to please the bullies. I can assure you if he ever were bullied I would step in there very fast and my response would not be 'son you have to change' - I would never make out to my child that he isn't acceptable as he is, and I would never back up a bully in telling him that. Never.

Anyway op I honestly do wish you and your ds all the best as everyone on this thread does regardless of differing views.

spag I think the problem you are having is that people literally cannot comprehend that left to their own devices, boys might want to wear dresses. They are so caught up in the fact that boys DONT wear dresses, that they can't imagine this doesn't derive from an inbuilt connection between boys biology and dresses. They simply can't imagine that the only reason boys don't wear dresses is because adults prevent them from doing so in their formative years.

You should not be surprised by this. People are spectacularly blind to the effects of peer pressure in their everyday lives, and many many people on here would deny that fashion has any impact on what they choose to wear or look like on any given day.

There have been scientific studies that have proven beyond all reasonable doubt not only that peer pressure IS the single biggest driver of preference in humans, but that it is consistently rated by the same humans as being one of the least important.

My advice is to stop arguing with stupid, because its pointless.

I think the dress thing is totally clouding the issue. What if the child were a dancer and were bullied for that? Should they then stop dancing?

larry wtf are you talking about? I made no connection whatsoever between dresses and being gay. I only asked if people were planning to tell their kids to change or hide their sexuality to avoid bullying. No reference to dresses at all.

I bet the ones supporting you don’t actually let their lads wear dresses either to school
But you see the same on threads about girls too. Someone will ask about whether it's appropriate to have an 11 year old girl dressed in hot pants saying 'spank me' across the bum, fake tan, high heels, face full of make up and hanginf around with 14/15 year olds.
Most will say something to the effect of 'clothing never excuses any bullying or assult, but be mindful of the risky situations the child is being put in'. The idea being that the world is as it is, that risk taking behaviours can happen from early teens, dressing in a sexually provocative way at 11 highlights a child's vulnerability and really it's hugely risky to place a child in potentually risky situations (but the clothea would never be to blame).

Some will come on telling everyone who has raised concerns that they are shaming girls, victim blaming and that it's just clothing. If anyone saw anything remotely sexual in the outfit then that's a problem them have. They should look in the mirror and question themselves more. After all, it's just clothes and there's no associations with anything. Why should girls have to monitor themselves just to cater to men and boys? Etc.

spag yes a boy should stop dancing....although apparently the royal ballet employs roughly equal numbers of male and female dancers. So all these people hoping their boy grows out of dancing before they get bullied for doing something they love, have somehow missed the memo that ballet is an gender neutral activity at professional level.

Spaghetti,

Again, with your analogy with dancing, it is not really accurate, it it? Most boys do dance (at least a little). Even among ballet classes for kids, there will be some boys.

The point is you have to weigh benefits of a behaviour versus the drawbacks. A ballet dancing boy will be athletically fit, flexible and strong and gain confidence from this. Taking a little teasing for this is well worth it (ditto the boy playing netball).

I see zero advantage accruing from wearing a dress, other than the nebulous (and false) one of the right to choose.

What do you feel your son gains from wearing a dress?

Op if you were going to home school him I would say crack on. No issues at all.

However he will be already known as the boy in the dress. I wet myself at primary school aged 7 and still got ribbed about it aged 17..

I don’t disagree with anything in last post in an ideal world but just be careful you don’t sacrifice your dss future happiness with a silly decision now.

How would you feel if he turned round to you at 15 after constant ‘bantering’ from mates or worse and said ‘ffs mum why did you let me wear a dress to school. I was 7! Why didn’t you and dad stop me’

maisy

I have 6 kids. If dds wanted to wear hot pants with spank me on aged 11 it would be a no from me same as one of my dss wanting to wear dresses to school.

God I think I am actually in some sort of parallel universe there.

M3lon

you can’t argue with stupid

You are quite right there do not going to bother. No one has said they can’t conprehend a boy wanting to wear a dress! No one! What’s incomprehensible is a parent allowing a small child to wear one to school.

If you can’t see the difference well that’s your problem

To be clear he doesn't wear a dress to school - he wears school uniform and there isn't a dress. He wears trousers.

He wears dresses outside of school.

'What do you feel your son gains from wearing a dress?'

What do you gain from wearing clothes that you choose? Would you be happy for someone to choose your clothes every day, clothes you wouldn't otherwise choose for yourself? Say if you like to wear t-shirts, would you be happy for someone to choose formal shirts with cufflinks for you, that you had to wear?

'How would you feel if he turned round to you at 15 after constant ‘bantering’ from mates or worse and said ‘ffs mum why did you let me wear a dress to school. I was 7! Why didn’t you and dad stop me’

I'd talk to him about it, apologise if he felt I'd got it wrong and help him come to a solution that works for him. Same as anything else really. I or his dad is usually with him when he's wearing a dress and we've not seen any 'banter' - I'd hope he'd tell me if there was any (he did tell me about the boy who asked him about it) so for now I think it's not an issue. If it were in the future I'd talk to him about it. I don't see the point in just banning him from it - I'd only support him in not wearing dresses if that's what he wanted.

Larry

Exactly. Ballet dancing and netball are main stream unisex sports.

'Exactly. Ballet dancing and netball are main stream unisex sports.'

My DS does ballroom dancing (before anyone asks his sister did it first then he asked to join) and he's had far more 'banter' about that than dresses. Not that it bothers him. He's doing the foxtrot for his exam

The issue on the thread I assume this is about is that the kid is 4 and has no experience of school. So no concept of the response he will get wearing a dress to school.

If he chooses to wear a dress to school when he has some experience of school then that’s different.

I'm really struggling with the condescending and patronising tone of the OP, it's like listening to a born again christian.

The OP knows full well that she is letting her son wear dresses to show how ' cool' and enlightened she is.

Her son, bless him, is going with it and is fortunate enough not have experienced a dangerous or very negative, upsetting incident yet.

I can't wait until he is 14, looking back on old photos and is still known as 'dress boy'. He will be asking why the fuck did you encourage him to carry on with it., whilst getting excluded from school for fighting anyone who winds him up about it.

Spaghetti,

Ruling out dresses is not dictating what he wears. I would not let my boys choose dresses or superman outfits for normal wear, nor would I let them get their ears pierced or a skin one haircut.

When they are teens they will be given more age appropriate choices.

I guide them but they still get plenty of choice. And I explain how people may perceive their choices.

Spaghetti,

Would you let your son get a skin one haircut (in the summer hols so it grew out before school) or his ears pierced using the same argument of freedom of expression?

I'd rather not derail into that thread Devilish. My main point in relation to that was the fact that people seemed to assume bullying was inevitable and to make decisions based on that - essentially bowing to the bullies' wishes.

I think that actually people have a visceral reaction to a boy wearing a dress so that clouds the issue somewhat.

essentially bowing to the bullies' wishes.
It's not bowing to their wishes. The entire thing is getting a little sanctimonious isn't it?

Let me make a decision where my child risks ridicule, reduce thr complex phenomenon of socialisation down to 'bit i just let them choose what they like' and but that's fine because think me claiming my rightness on an issue is the most important thing.

My son had a skin one haircut for a long time (he doesn't now, it's longer) - I'm genuinely not sure what the issue is with that one?

I would be hesitant to let him pierce his ears due the pain/infection factor - plus I don't know if he'd allow me to clean it or would actually wear earrings to keep them open. If I was sure he really wanted it, I'd probably let him.

'I guide them but they still get plenty of choice.'

They have choice within the limits you set them. If their choice isn't within that limit (eg a superhero outfit - can't see what's wrong with that?) they can't choose it. So they are restricted and for no real reason as far as I can see.

'but that's fine because think me claiming my rightness on an issue is the most important thing.'

Nope. The most important thing is that my child is given the confidence to make the choices he wants to make without me saying 'oh but bullies are telling you not to do that.' That's not a matter of rightness, that's a matter of different approaches. You would want your child to change to fit in, I would not.

I'm with you in the main - I think it's far more importand to equip kids with self-esteem and the skills to stand for who they are, and to put the onus for rudeness and bullying where it belongs. The only thing that worries me is that sometimes aspects of our identities put us in real danger, and when these aspects intersect the danger grows. So my son as a biracial kid is already perceived in a hostile way by many in UK society, consciously or subconsciously. He's then at risk in a big way from his dad's community if he is anything but cis and straight, as well as from many in wider society. When the time comes, and responding to his cues, I know I'll want to prepare him for this reality whilst supporting him in being who he is, but I think I would be naive and it would be to his detriment not to consider the risks and challenges he'll face. That's not to say I'd tell him not to do something for fear of not fitting in, but I'd want to help him navigate living as his true self in an extremely imperfect world.

I can't believe the amount of narrow mindedness on this thread.

If my son wanted to wear a dress then I would be fine with that. He is 6. I would warn him, however that some people are narrow minded and he may expect some people to laugh at him or call him weird. I would also say to him that there is nothing wrong with being weird because if everyone was the same then life would be very boring.

Let children like what they like fgs.

I wonder if those against the OP are more worried about people making fun of them for their children's choices...?