To have more children in these circumstances?

[LightningAndLove]

In Aibu as I have no idea what category it should go in.
This might be quite long so sorry in advance.

I already have two DD's (8 and 10) who live with my ex as my work means I am away most week days. It's also very unpredictable and I usually find out how many nights I will be away for the week and where to the Friday before or even when I go in on the Monday.

We live very close to each ( literally around the corner) and ex and it was all very amicable and ex and I still get on brilliantly so we have no official arrangements but the girls stay with me most weekends and are free to come and go between both houses whenever I'm home.

Dh and I got married in March. We'd talked before about having children together and both agreed that it's something we'd like at some point in the future.
Since the wedding we've been talking about it more seriously.
I do really want children with dh and we're in a secure enough place financially and career wise that it's definitely practical

However, I feel really guilty at the thought of having more children when I've already got two that I feel I dont see enough of.
I'm scared that they'll feel like they're pushed out or replaced

Like it or not, mothers and fathers are nothing alike

Are they not? Both feed, clothe, change, and love their baby.

Like it or not, mothers and fathers are nothing alike

Oh really? So they're not both parents with equal responsibility for their children?

And you say I'm being ridiculous!

You also say I'm being superficial, which I find interesting. I think it's superficial to just accept society's imposed view of what mothers and fathers can do. I prefer to delve a little deeper.

Note that I've never said that OP having another child is an excellent suggestion. I've simply pointed out that she would not have had half such a lot of grief over the mere suggestion. Which is true. Due to views like yours. I believe you accused her of "palming off" her children on their own father. I expect you think dads "babysit" too.

To be clear, OP isn't planning to abandon her newborn. I think she will be taking maternity leave.

*if she were a man

rinabean I'm sorry for your experience. I do have relevant experience to the thread and a right to an opinion. And yes, I referred to two parties because I was thinking about the roles of mothers and fathers. But I get why you pulled me up. Children are central. I firmly believe the attitudes expressed about mother's mattering more does contribute to the huge number of fathers who drop out of their children's lives. I'm not giving men a get out card, there's more to it. But I think it's part of if. So yes it's children who suffer. In some ways I wonder if feeling they don't matter is similar to the OP who as a young woman with little children felt she had little to offer. I.dont think it's off topic to say dad's can give children what they need given how OP has been treated for the parenting choices made for her DC.

you don't care about children dealing with parents who can't be bothered I've expressed myself very badly for you to think this because this is very far from true.

Like it or not, mothers and fathers are nothing alike, mothers will always be more important to a child than a father. It is what it is!! That isn't 'sexism', it is REALITY.

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE. NOT SEXISM, MY ARSE.

(And yes, my mother is not more important to me than my father. They are both equally important to me, and they also were when I was a child. It is possible, you know).

My dp is the primary care giver to my sc. He is the one that works pt and has all the holidays off etc and I'm the one that works full time.
He is brilliant. However my dsd really struggles with the fact that she does not live with mum and only sees her once a month. It's not normal for little children to not have mum around as the primary care giver.
I do think in this OP case it is completely different to separated parents etc. As this new child will be living with mum and dad whilst first 2 live with dad as primary because mum's job and earnings did not enable her to have primary care. I think that alone may cause resentment as first 2 did not have a choice in the matter of which parent they lived with.

Also to answer earlier questions. We cannot afford my own child as our earnings go on my 2 sc. Plus with dss profound learning disabilities it would not be safe or fair on them.

As I said it's not about father being primary carer, it's about the impact psychologically this choice would have.

Personally I think there is a difference between when mum leaves or dad leaves, because society is set up around mums being the primary carers; so if the dad is the primary Carer, and the kids visit the mum, they sense that this is off, that their mum should be the main one looking after them, and that something isn't right.
Whereas us single mums are ten a penny, so it doesn't feel so 'odd' to be looked after primarily by mum.
Maybe I'm talking bollocks, I don't know.

I’m not going to read everything as it’s late but honestly no I don’t think it’s unreasonable. You are in a ppos Orio

Sorry touch screen phone:

You are just in a position where you have the men as the principle parent thsrss

Ugh I think my phone doesn’t like that the lights off.

If you switched the genders around nobody would be telling a man not to have kids with his new wife would they. Your new husband deserves to have a kid too if you and he both want one.

So if you go ahead and have another child, who will be looking after this child ?

Reading this thread is like time travelling back to the 50s.

The 1850s.

🤮

So if you go ahead and have another child, who will be looking after this child ?

The OP when she is not working, and, you know, the child's FATHER?

FFS.

so if the dad is the primary Carer, and the kids visit the mum, they sense that this is off, that their mum should be the main one looking after them, and that something isn't right.
Whereas us single mums are ten a penny, so it doesn't feel so 'odd' to be looked after primarily by mum.

Yeah, because single mums have always been the norm, and haven't been discriminated against or anything.

So it's fine if you have children as a single mum because now society sees it as normal, even though it didn't not so long ago. But fathers being the main carers is "odd", so people shouldn't do it.

Likewise lesbian couples, or gay couples with children. Or mixed heritage couples. They shouldn't have children because it feels "odd".

Shame on you.

I was about to say something along those lines Butchy

I am truly shocked by the attitudes on here.

@DistanceCall - I didn't mean that it is odd, I mean that society expects a mum to be around, and children can be very conformist and feel more deeply abandoned if they don't live with their mum, more so than their dad. I imagine it's been studied, and as I said before, maybe I'm talking rubbish, I haven't read the research. Just saying that as households headed by single women are more common in general, children will have friends in the same position as them. Sorry I didn't mean to offend.

If they have two dads that's a totally different scenario, which I am sure their dads will discuss with the children as they grow up.

I didn't say anyone shouldn't have kids, I'm not sure why you think I was saying that.

You said "us single mums are ten a penny, so it doesn't feel so 'odd' to be looked after primarily by mum." And said that children feel that "something' isn't right" because "society is set up around mums being the primary carers".

You were suggesting that children are affected because the way their family is set up is not "normal" in society. The implication is clear.

Single mums like you used to be despised and insulted, and much worse. You of all people should sympathise with and support a group - fathers as primary carers - who are not yet seen as "normal" in society.

I didn't say I don't support or sympathise with dads bringing up children as main carer.

I'm not going to post my opinion on the individual situation as it has been largely covered by other posters but I do find the arguments about whether there is a difference for kids between Mum and dad and whether his is actually just blatant sexism quite interesting.

A few years ago we were involved in the process of retracing biological parents and during that process did a lot of reading and had many discussions with people around the emotions involved for adopted children. What stood out for me was the majority of adopted children, ourselves included, who chose to trace their biological parents, actually chose to trace their biological mother. Initially atleast anyway. When I thought about and discussed this more it became apparent that there are often different, stronger emotions involved for children when dealing with their mother leaving them than their father.

I know it's not the same situation here at all and I wouldn't dare to suggest this is the same for all adopted children, but it certainly did make me believe that the innate bond from a child to its mother is different than that to its father. I don't doubt a father can be just as good a primary carer, or that they love their children any less, but I do think it is different from the childs perspective to process their mother choosing to leave, then their dad. And that's not sexism, it's nature

As someone who's partner works away during the week be prepared for having more children to put a BIG stress in your relationship, on top of your current children. Lots of resentment can build from the parents who holds the fort at home. And tbh it's not really parenting and my dp would agree on this. He doesn't know kids homework or school or small achievement's. He misses put on lots. And he hates it but needs must

Not growing up with your mother, and watching them live with a new partner and baby, is exquisitely painful for a lot of us. Even when you know there were practical, sensible decisions as to why that happened.

Young children often don't yet have the emotional maturity and dexterity of language to articulate their confusion and pain in the moment, as this stuff is unfolding. You know something feels amiss, is deeply hurtful, and saddens you, but you can't quite explain. Because you're a child, you have no control and things are presented to you as a done deal - so you feel embarrassed and ashamed that these things, presented so matter of factly, bother you and make you feel bad.

Something making me uncomfortable on this thread is the insistence of a few posters that it's perfectly ok for OP to go on to have her new baby simply because the existing girls are being looked after just fine by their dad. That's missing the point massively.

The dad in question could be fantastic - I hope he is, for the sake of these kids. I hope he acknowledges any anxieties or bouts of sadness that they have, and openly agrees that it's shit for them if (when) they are crying that it's not fair that they don't get to have a mum who wants to live with them.

I had the best mum in the world (kinship fostering) and she held space for all my feelings, good and bad, and helped me manage them. It still didn't make the absence of my biological mother a trifling matter. The ache of her absence, the sense of loss, left me with a lot of stuff to work out.

I think a lot of hurt over this kind of thing remains hidden, surfacing then in adulthood.

There’s loads of posts on here about sexism. The girls are living with their dad and that’s ok blah blah.
It’s not sexism and it’s not ok.
Basically OP has moved on. She justifies it in many ways, but ultimately she has 2 pre teens who she has decided not to bring up. Anyone who has a teen girl (or a boy) knows only too well the daily drama and trauma that they go through. Dads are very important but come on, every girl needs her mum.
That said, probably not this mum. She has already changed her life to the point that her girls are not really a part of it. And now she’s planning a new baby.
Well. Talk about a kick in the teeth to her existing kids, then what happens to new baby?
OP you really shouldn’t have been a mum in the first place, please don’t repeat history.
My heart aches for your girls

If you have to have more children, you have time to see your existing children too

DH is freelance works mainly from home he's taking a career break for first year, OP goes back to work asap, I wonder when he last worked ?