To worry about timing of DC?

[WobbleHead]

Oh my god sorry this is long.

I’m 35 this September. DFiancé was 44 this April. We’re getting married next month after being together 3 years. No previous DC.

I’m keen to start a family, OH says he wants to be a dad, but in his head the timeline is ‘some point in the future’ (I.e. several years) and I want the timeline for TTC to be towards the end of next year.

We both have good reasons for preferring our version of timing, but I think my reasons are better than his reasons. I don’t want to create tension (all discussions very chilled out so far), but am I being unreasonable to think I should gently raise pressure over the next 6 months or so?

FYI my reasons:

1. I’m not getting any younger

2. Neither is he

3. I’ve now passed 2 years at current job and I’m entitled to a pretty good maternity package. I’m not enjoying the job that much so this maternity package is literally the only thing keeping me there.

His reasons:

1. Not having kids is great and we get to go to the pub together a lot and go on holiday, why not carry on like this for a bit?

2. He’s worried about being an ‘older dad’ - his dad was 42 when OH was born, and his dad had awful health problems and sadly passed away when OH was in his 30s

3. Jobs are more precarious these days (he’s a worrier), we want to buy a house together (we can afford a 3 bed in London suburbs), it’s all a bit much and shall we wait until finances are even more settled?

I’m worried that his passivity will eventually put us in a position where it’s not possible any more. I have 2 friends TTC and after IVF etc have not been successful. I don’t want to sound shrill but I really don’t think he gets that my baby bits have an expiry date. Maybe he’s hoping that delaying long enough will mean it’s not possible any more and the decision will have been taken out of his hands and he won’t be the bad guy any more.

It’s always good to have a plan B. Not everyone who has children can have them. But you’ve not even tried yet and already you seem to be talking yourself into compromising on this. I feel like you’re quite determined to go through with this wedding, even knowing that no amount of counselling or compromise is going to make him the sort of husband you want.

I've always known I wanted children.
Dh and I discussed it right at the start of our relationship, and he said he wanted kids too. He said that in previous relationships he had always said he wasn't sure, but he was just nervous about admitting it.
I have no idea if that was true, or if he only said he wanted children because he knew how important it was to me.

When we were discussing ttc, he always said he was ready whenever I was, and it was completely my choice as to if I felt ready. It was my body, me who would have to go through pregnancy etc and therefore he was ready whenever I was.
Again, I have no idea if that was true or if he was saying it because he knew i wanted children.

I took him at his word, and we have a dc now. He is the best dad ever, and absolutely adores our dd. He says he can't imagine our life without her and hardly remembers life before her. She's his world, and he's looking forward to having dc2 and possibly dc3 at some point in the future.

I dont really know if that helps at all. If you want kids and he doesn't I don't really know where you can go from there.
If you agree not to try for dc please be sure you are ok with not having then

Pushed send too soon.
Meant to say

If you agree not to try for dc please be sure you are ok with not having them as otherwise the resentment will destroy your relationship regardless. And then you'll be too late to have dc with someone else

Neither one of you have been unreasonable. Your allowed to want children and he's allowed not to want children.

IF he has knowingly spent the last 3 years leading you to believe that children were on the cards when he never had any intentions of having a child then he is 100% unreasonable.

I don't like the way he keeps trying to make you feel bad just because you've told him what you want in life. Sounds very manipulative and self centered. Like how dare you call him on his bs. Your suppose to shut your mouth and tow the line like you always do.

If you can genuinely be happy living your plan B life, and lots of people are then thats great. But id think long and hard before i made such a huge sacrifice for a man who lead me on for years. IF that is in fact what hes done.

A friend of mine married a man hoping he would change his mind about having kids. He had been married before and never wanted children. They were married later in life - he was late 40s and she was 40. By the time she had talked him round (which took years) it was too late. They ended up adopting a little boy.

My husband wasn't 100% sure about having kids as his own father was/is so lousy . We had IVF (not due to fertility issues) and he wasn't sure about that to start with. I pointed out that that was my only chance of becoming a mum and he thought about that and committed 100% to it. he is now a fantastic daddy to our 3.5 year old son.

Im so sorry for you Wobble but agree with other posteres - decide what is most important to you. If you really do want children and you stay with him, it will eat away at you.

I think counselling for just you would be better, he's manipulating things and trying to apportion blame. His reaction would be enough for me to end it. I couldn't trust him again and he is being so unsupportive. A marriage takes two to work, you can't make all the compromises and accommodate him all the time, that isn't love.

Re-reading your last post you seem in total denial, he has told you loud and clear who he is and what he wants. Why aren't you listening? A decent therapist isn't going to tell either of you that you are unreasonable. Your OH has lied to you, start with that.

Hi OP,
Hope you got something from the counselling session but I had to agree with the other.

You wanted children now you are talking about plan B and writing a book

Please don’t get swept up in seeing how it goes if it isn’t what you want - listen to your gut

Kids or no kids IS a dealbreaker (and I say this as somebody who is CFBC).

I've been with my OH for 15 years, and while I'd say he was on the fence re kids, I have always been vehemently (sometimes militantly) CF, and he knows that.

When he proposed (nine years ago: yeah, I'm kicking that can down the road!), I had a Very Serious Discussion with him to reiterate my point, and that I was not going to change my mind. If that was not for him, then he was absolutely free to go, no hard feelings.

Fortunately, from my PoV, he decided that he wanted to be with me more than he wanted to be a dad, BUT this was coming from a man who was, at best, hovering on the fence anyway. As the years have gone on, he's firmly on my side now.

If you DO want children, then you are wasting your time with this man, I'm afraid.

Drop it now, give yourself some time to grieve, then move on.

Please don't drop your life down to a plan B. This is the only life you'll have, you will regret that. He isn't saying he wants children at some unspecified point in the future where you can compromise on timing, he's just saying "NO" and expecting you to agree. Having children can be more important to women than to men; there's a biological urge because we carry them. Not having children because you tried and it didn't work is very different than never trying.

Please don't settle, OP. As sure as I'm typing this you'll regret it.

Any decent man who didn’t want children wouldn’t marry a woman who did want children. He would end the relationship because he would care enough not to want to deny her a family.

Yours is not a decent man. He’s a selfish man. Don’t enable it. It will be heartbreaking for you because you love him, but you’ll survive the breakup. Your life will be better without him.

His main sticking point is how bad we have been at communicating, how hurt he's been at some of the things I've said. He's asking himself does this mean we aren't life partners?

This makes me so so angry on your behalf. You may have said some things that have hurt his feelings but this in the wake of discovering that he's hidden his feelings about really important life plans, which could in the long run prevent you from having children, which he knows is really important to you.

He's trying to whitewash you into thinking you're equally to blame but that's complete bullshit. You aren't the one who wasn't honest and his lack of honesty has prevented you from making informed decisions about your life. That, as much as the issue of having children would make me doubt the relationship. He put his want to be with you above your right to information about your own life. I would find that really hard to forgive.

I do hope the counselling was helpful but I think you should think very carefully about whether you move forward with this man.

It sounds like he's persuading you over to not having DC - and I think you'll regret that and worse by the time you realise it'll be too late anyway, you'll end up resenting him and the marriage will fail anyway.

Perhaps counsellor can clarify things.

Wow. A plan B life...

I really hope we don’t see you posting in 5 years because you’re feeling like you settled for second best I’ve got a feeling that you’ll marry this man because you don’t want to bother anyone by calling off the wedding.

Op, I think you are over thinking this. You want children, he doesn’t therefore you can’t marry him. Don’t give up your dream of having kids for a plan b.

I think you’ve communicated with him perfectly well. He knows that you’ve always wanted ttc after the wedding. I hope the counselling helps you to split up in an amicable way.

I fear you are giving up something for a man who has shown you no honesty or respect, and tries to blame that all on you.

To have children or not...take that whole debate away and yet he is still a man who would mislead and emotionally manipulate you.

OP how was counselling?

You already sound like you are capitulating to his narrative... YOU upset him with what you were saying, he is blaming you for the lack of communication, HE feels maybe you aren’t life partners, and you are now planning all the things you can do to occupy yourself while you cope with the sadness of not having children... wow. He’s really got you where he wants you. I think it sounds as if he’s decided for you both. It’s desperatly sad and I can understand how hard it would be to walk away and cancel a wedding, but I really think he way he’s manipulating this into a situation where you and up believing you are unreasaonable and have to change to keep him. Not a nice man.

He's with you because you are a plan-B type person.

Just perfect for his life.

Your update made me inexplicably sad. I really hope you get what you want out of life OP.

I think your last post is desperately sad. One thing therapy can't help with is the choice between having a child and not. What if the therapist said you were unreasonable to want a child.

The ring you have to decide is if one of you is going to settle for a life you don't want. His words sound like emotional manipulation.

Reading between the lines, his avoidance just screams that he really doesn’t want children but can’t bring himself to say it that bluntly. And he is entitled to feel like that - some people don’t want them as fiercely and passionately as others do. There doesn’t need to be underlying reasons from his own childhood.

But he isn’t being honest or really opening up to you. His mum is right that you should have thrashed this out years ago, but it’s too late for that now. It sounds like he just buried his head in the sand and hoped the problem would go away rather than be honest from the start, and that’s not acceptable. Be honest with yourself - you don’t want a plan B life, as much as you might love him, you’re polar opposites in what you want for your futures. He hasn’t had the balls to say it straight til you’ve forced him into a corner, I don’t see how the relationship can survive this because one of you will always be compromising unfairly and you’ll always be second-guessing whether the other is being honest or is really happy with how things pan out.

And I say that as someone who really, REALLY doesn’t want children.

“family is still not a clear yes or no. But there are lots of ways to have a meaningful life's work, and I'm ready to think about a life together resulting in a plan B - maybe taking over a charity, writing, or being creative in another way or starting a business. I want to always be pushing and challenging myself and 'making' something bigger, and that could be children or it could be something else”

• those aren’t your words are they OP? They’re his. He is trying to coax you round to his way of thinking. And it looks like he’s succeeding.

You really need to listen to all of the posters here who have advised you. I promise you it will be your most painful, enduring regret if you settle now and give up your dream to have children to marry this man.

Children are not a life’s work. They’re so much more meaningful and fulfilling than work and any project or career that you could have. And frankly there’s no reason that you can’t have children AND set up your own business/charity or have a glittering career. It may be a struggle at times but it is doable - with the right support. Men have been doing it for hundreds of years. But I bet he’s convinced you that it’s children OR a career etc, because of course even if you did have them with him he’d “leave it all to you”.

Please, OP, think seriously about what you truly want. And remember that marriage is not necessarily forever and frankly VERY easily undone, particularly if you don’t have children (since there are no ties worth staying for if the relationship suffers). Ask yourself how you would feel if he left you for a younger woman when you’re 50. Think about how he’d owe you precisely nothing because you would not have children. And you would be left childless, infertile and alone. He could easily start a family without you at any age.

Be brave and tell him - it’s children or you walk.

I can totally see this guy at 50, deciding he does actually think he might want kids, op by that point can't or they try various fertility treatments. They split and he remarries and has children with a new younger wife.

Seen this happen in real life.

How would you feel then op?