Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

In DH's experience, him and the rest of the teaching staff are right, and the parents are wrong in 99% of issues concerning schools and parents.

He bases his approach to parents on this.

devlish so why does your DS think he would be 'roasted' unless he and his friends would 'roast' someone for doing that?

Or did you tell him he would be? Is that where he got the idea?

Has it occurred to people that if parents stopped telling their kids they would be bullied for looking different, and started to tell their kids it wasnt okay to bully people for looking different, then the whole 'roasting' problem might evaporate?

There is nothing quite like a self-fulfilling prophecy is there....

SunShades
Systematically believing staff over parents doesn’t make him a very good head actually. I had the same issue with the head at dds School. It was a safeguarding issue. The class teacher believed me wholeheartedly as she knew me not to make a fuss unnecessarily but she only had limited influence over the head.

mad apologies, I think I conflated two posts in a row. Its disturbing that people think there is a magical cut off between nursery and primary school for moving from kids should be allowed to get on with whatever they like, to kids should be prevented from doing anything that might be commented on adversely by anyone.

Gosh yes it’s really brave of them to use a 4 year old to make their points for them.

Yeah no. They’re idiots.

DH is a headteacher, and he and says he'd be making an urgent phone call to social services to report suspicions of abuse if this happened at his place.

And Social Services would file the note of the phone call in the bin and put that headteacher on their unofficial list of headteachers who don't know their job.

Teasing isn't necessarily bullying. My 17 year old normally attends school looking much smarter than his classmates but on the last day of term had a fuck it moment and went much more casual than normal. He was teased by staff and classmates but wouldn't classify it as bullying. Similarly my y7 son said when someone comes to school after a haircut, it's standard to greet them as Fresh Trim rather than their name. It's teasing/joking and not bullying.

The example about girls and trousers/physics are not applicable here as our feminist predecessors fought for this to become the norm. There's been no equivalent movement where men fought for a broader definition of manhood. Gay Rights activists have helped a little but there's a long way to go to match the broader definition that feminists achieved for women.

Girls taking A level physics is hardly edgy is it? Where are you? In dds A level class the majority of science pupils were girls.

I was 18 in 1982 plenty of girls did maths and physics etc.

It’s all about the parents isn’t it.

Oh no not Statement Parents🙄

I'd recommend an advance search on SunShades. I've just done it. Most instructive.

Deletion going well then...

What do you mean by that @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g ?

gasp I would agree. I've not done it but the name crops up often on a range of threads, always being quite provocative.

What MaisyPops said.

Yes, I've just ASed them. I agree too Gasp0de.

SunShades, you were asked on another thread if your DH is a headteacher in a maintained school or academy in the UK. Is he?

It probably wouldn't be teasing or bullying at 4. It would be genuine misunderstanding. That age is peak gender stereotypes. As far as many 4 yr olds are concerned, wearing a dress is firm evidence you are a girl. (And the trans campaigns aren't helping that. Google mermaids gender spectrum image.)

The kids telling my two they "were a girl/boy" wrong way round weren't malicious or bullies. They saw something that didn't fit the rules they'd inferred about society from their observations. And they found it funny or thought someone had made a mistake or plain assumed child was other sex.

Can someone explain to me the” Islington thing”
As for the clothes, I don’t know what to say. My child wears what ever. We have a selection of dressing up stuff.
Once someone asked my child
Are you a boy or a girl ?!
I didn’t say anything but waited to see what my child will say
“Depends on how I feel” was the answer
We never discussed anything about genders etc so have no idea where it came from
But Islington ?! That confuses me

M3lon have you been near a teen? You have a very weird idea of how they work.

What raining catsanddogs said. They all use the ‘fresh trim’ stuff at his school as well. Every hair cut comes with the fear that he be called potato the next day because of his fresh trim. Roasting is not bullying - it’s how teen boys tend to interact.

It’s nothing to do with me. I never tell him what to wear - he’s 16. I couldn’t care less whether he wears ballet tights to school or not. He’s old enough and has the capacity to decide for himself whether or not he wants to take the teasing that would go with it. He doesn’t that’s fine and up to him. He has a better idea of the comments he’ll get because he’s at the school and spends the time there.

The desire to look the same, wear ‘acceptable’ clothes etc comes from the kids themselves. He’s not going to listen to my opinion on how he should dress

So if he wanted to wear ballet tights to school, fine, I would support him. He doesn’t. No problem. Doesn’t mean he’s a bully (I still can’t get over that leap. He won’t wear ballet tights around school friends so is a bully. Yeah right).

Is he trans gender?

Well, quite.

Well-meaning 'woke' idiots will be asking the kid stupid questions like this & he could end up on puberty blockers, facing cross-sex hormones & a lifetime on medication.

GnotherGnu
From what SunShades said on the Wetherspoons thread, she and her dh don’t live in the U.K. but visit often.

Should have added that’s probably why he hasn’t got the sack - that is if anything she says is real.

Well, quite, Mummyoflittledragon. But it's a bit puzzling that she claims that her husband is the head of a free school with recourse to things like the managed move system etc, which doesn't sound a whole lot like a school outside the UK.

Fascinating thread - and great to see that most people quite clearly spot the issue of adults setting their child up to fail (or at least to have to confront unnecessary problems that are of the adult's making).
Safeguarding children is alive and well on Mumsnet!