Friends sending their DS to school in a pinafore.

[RelentlessSylvia]

Friends (I'm pals with both halves of the couple) have a DS, 4.

He's starting primary after the summer and they've bought him pinafores rather than shorts or trousers. They've always bought him a range of clothes up to now - dresses, skirts, trousers, shorts, pink, blue and every other colour - and he's picked what he wants to wear every day. He has no concept that garments are gendered and just likes to wear what he likes to wear. I think this is great.

But they haven't bought a range of uniform items, they've bought him pinafores and tights. AIBU to think they are making a statement at the expense of their DS's choice? Shorts and trousers are, for better or worse, much less gendered items than dresses.

He is a lovely boy and a testament to their parenting. Both parents are proudly unorthodox and brilliant, brave people. But AIBU to think they're kinda using their son as a flag to wave to the rest of the school community, rather than giving him the option of being low-key?

Nursery have previously expressed concerns that my friends were forcing their DS to wear dresses. They weren't. He chooses his clothes from a range. It may be that they've said 'which style of uniform do you want?' and he's made a choice but sadly there is a huge context to gender and clothing that he isn't aware of, so it isn't a genuine choice?

AIB horrible and judgemental? I love that this kid can be who he wants to be. I just worry that he's going to become an object of ridicule and derision on his first day.

Is the edgy Dad wearing a skirt and blouse to work?

Devilish
@fascicle I have teenagers - I know what schools (or more relevantly) kids are like.

Do you think that those who disagree with you don't have children/teenagers/current experience of schools? Odd thing to say.

There is a massive difference between something a child needs to do themselves and a parent preventing a child from fitting in for their own reasons (my friend’s mother, these parents).

Here is an earlier description of the child's parents:

My friends are not twats or idiots or cruel or any of the other things that have been said. I think they're misguided on this point but they're also kind, loving parents, supportive friends, and a great couple.

Do you really imagine that these parents will/can force their son to wear a pinafore against his will or that they have any interest in preventing their child from fitting in/being happy?

Please also note, that the OP does not agree with yours and others' labelling of the parents as idiots. There is a persistence on this thread in making negative assumptions/judgments based on information that has not been provided.

I won't be adding anything else, I just wanted to correct the misapprehension that only rich folk in Islington parent a particular way.

Crepe it’s good to hear that your ds does that. Mine cheerfully prances around the village in his ballet clothes before and after his lesson, but he’s six. I’ve been wondering at what point he might decide not to do this. He is the only boy in the ballet school.

So they already face prejudice or potential prejudice that’s so sad op but for the life of me your last post even more begs the question why on earth do this unless for attention.

Anyway each to their own and obviousiy I wish this lad all the best.

OP the thread largely echoes what you said in your first post.

Whatever social class they are, you yourself described them as unorthodox people using their DS to wave a flag.

They might be decent people but they are misguided if they haven't anticipated the impact this could have on their DS.

You said there were 2 parents so im guessing lesbians. This is interesting as i know a lesbian couple whose 'son' is a transman and undergoing transition.
The other is 'bi'.
Their 'liberalism' is what they are proud of. However in a different family its likely the girl would be a tomboy and the other-aged 12-still making their mind up about who they fancy.
They argue that society would make them conform. I argue their stance is making them non conform.
I still think its a pisstake especially since he has 2 mums so need special attention to ensure his identity as a boy is established. Id actually say it borders on abuse tbh and hope school keep their eye on him.

I said I had current experience of schools because you were explaining to me that they have changed fascicle.

I spend quite a lot of time working with ASD teens who have severe mental health issues. Occasionally those have started following significant bullying. If this kid is going to stand out anyway shoving him in a dress, before he has sufficient understanding to accurately assess what reaction that will cause, is a spectacularly bad (& risky - for him) idea.

Yes get it deleted op it is identifying and please continue to to try and make your friends see sense for the lads sake

former do you also think domestic violence is nothing to do with upbringing just because it s prevalent?

Of course it is to do with upbringing that a large proportion of boys would think its just fine to ostracise, tease and bully another boy for dressing differently.

Just because a lot of parents are dropping the ball on this (and also schools) doesn't mean it isn't a failure of parenting (or schools).

Seriously...go home and have along conversation with your children tonight - make sure they know in no uncertain terms that it isn't acceptable to bully someone for dressing differently.

devilish I really cannot believe you have worked with these people and are still victim blaming like that.

It is not the fault of anyone who is bullied that they have been bullied.

Quit blaming victims and have a serious conversation with your child about not being a bully.

mad I think it is just so sad that the answer to boys doing something that is feminine stereotyped is 'I suppose its all right when they are young as long as they grow out of it soon'.

I was the only girl in my physics class...I'm really glad people didn't just ignore me in the hopes that I'd finally get the memo that physics isn't suitable for girls.

This is really happening? Poor little boy. Fgs some parents should be struck off.

Where the fuck did you get the idea that my son is a bully? Because he won’t wear his ballet tights (aged 16) into his boys school he’s a bully? That’s a bizarre leap of logic.

And no I’m not victim blaming. I am saying that children with ASD tend to stand out anyway and some of those get horribly visciously targeted to the point where they become extremely unwell. I am saying that parents who make their kids stand out even more - at an age when the child is too young to understand the consequences of wearing a pinafore to school; too young to make an informed choice are unlikely to be helpful.

My eldest son is severely autistic and extremely vulnerable. If I decided he should wear a pinafore he’d be even more bloody vulnerable.

Devilish
If this kid is going to stand out anyway shoving him in a dress

Once again, you are adversely embellishing the information provided by the OP and painting a picture of the parents which is not supported by the evidence.

He’s 4 fascicle. Too young to understand the way that others may behave towards him if he decides to wear a dress. If he decides to wear it at 8 after a few years of finding out what School is like, fine, but he’s not, he’s 4. He cannot make an informed choice because he doesn’t have enough experience.

And actually if someone doesn’t have the capacity to understand a decision we should be making them in their best interests. I can 100% guarantee that if I decided my 19 year old son should wear a pinafore when out an about then SS would have raising serious concerns. He’s much like a 4 year old - can choose which item of clothing he likes the look or feel of but not understand social conventions around clothing.

devil you said your son and his friends would tease any other boy that wore a dress. That is where I am getting that your son is a bully...and his friends.

I mean you understand that persistent teasing is bullying don't you?

I didn’t say that at all. I said he thinks he would be roasted (not bullied, roasted) for wearing a ballet outfit around his school friends. He therefore chooses not to. You made all sorts of weird assumptions that he must be a bully from that.

M3lon I agree with you - I will be incredibly sad if/when he bows to social pressures and stops gallivanting around in his ballet kit. I think perhaps you misunderstand me. I don’t for a second think ‘it’s ok when they are young’. I hope he continues to do ballet and stays proud of it.

I was one of two girls in my physics A-level class of ten kids btw - there were two passes and eight fails in that class

And at 16 Ds2 has the capacity to decide for himself how political he wants to me. If I lectured him on the importance of wearing tights to school to break down barriers he’d tell me where to go. I doubt he’d personally be that fussed about a boy wearing a dress, he has queer friends, but I don’t suppose he could do much to stop comments directed towards them.

If you choose to ignore convention then you will use up a certain amount of energy dealing with the consequences of that (whether the consequences are kind, interested, curious, unpleasant or bordering on hate crime). It should therefore be a decision you make for yourself with an understanding of the consequences, not one imposed on you.

He’s 4 fascicle. Too young to understand the way that others may behave towards him if he decides to wear a dress. If he decides to wear it at 8 after a few years of finding out what School is like, fine, but he’s not, he’s 4. He cannot make an informed choice because he doesn’t have enough experience
I agree.
If our boys at school decided they wanted to wear skirts to school then fine. Go for it. They are teens. They have enough world knowledge to make their decision.
Anyone who bullied them for it should be dealt with severly.

But parents knowing how the world is using their children as statements of their own cool philosophy? Not ok.

DH is a headteacher, and he and says he'd be making an urgent phone call to social services to report suspicions of abuse if this happened at his place.

... and yet if his staff showed a year 8 class a 15 rated horror film and a parent complained he'd send them the transfer papers to take their children out and move them to another school. Seems legit.