To have raised a gentleman?

[Storm4star]

Off the back of another thread, where people are saying men shouldn’t have to give up their seat for a pregnant lady,

I raised a gentleman. He’s in his 20s and gives up his seat on a train for an elderly person or pregnant woman. We had a lovely moment in Japan where he gave up his seat for an elderly lady (men are notoriously bad there for thinking they take precedence over women) and we saw her rummaging in her bag and, as she got off, she gave him a beautiful handmade gift she had there, to say thank you. It was such a sweet moment. Is this so wrong?

Why does feminism mean that men can’t show manners and decency to other human beings because they are female? Is it really so insulting? My son cooks and cleans and is fully aware that any woman in his life should be treated as an equal. However, he is also kind and caring and was raised to treat women respectfully and with kindness. To help them if they need help.

For the most part, women are not as physically strong as men. Men do not need to go through pregnancy, childbirth, period issues, menopause (which I am certainly currently struggling with) etc etc. Why are we pretending that our bodies are the same? Is equal pay and treatment dependant on proving you are physically as “tough” as a man?

I’m actually not sorry that I have raised him to be the man he is, because I am proud of him. I think feminism is a bit skewed to think that we have to be “just like men” to earn equality.

I'm trying to raise my DS (currently only 3) in a similar manner to the way you say you raised yours; kind, compassionate, well mannered, respectful and treats people equally.
My DM also raised myself and and my 4 sisters the very same way. Shouldn't we be raising all our children this way, no matter of their gender 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t get this concept of being ‘a gentleman’ who has to look after us poor ‘laydeez’. I have a son, and I’m raising him to be a nice person, the same as I would if I had a daughter. I would expect my child to know they should give up a seat for anyone who needed it, or hold a door open, or whatever, for anyone, not just women. And if someone needed a seat on the tube I would happily give up my seat, rather than wait for a man to do it.

We all have a responsibility to be nice to everyone, it’s not just about men being gentlemanly to women.

Now I'm confused. A very nice man offered my DD and me a seat in the train the other day as she looked tired. I'm a feminist and a women and I neither ranted at him, nor offered him homemade goods. I said, "it's alright", he said "I'm getting off soon anyway". I smiled, took the seat, and said "thanks".

Ohhhhhh the humanity.

Thanks random bloke on the London Bridge train. You were polite (and very good looking). You weren't a 'gentleman' or 'chivalrous' because we don't live in Ye Olden Tymes.

@wellBeehivedWoman we are of one mind on this.

I think it’s interesting we both saw the link between so-called chivalry and women being kept out of boardrooms.

Pity the OP doesn’t.

Chivalry, schrivalry.

Any time a man boasts about chivalry, what he means is that he's a selfish pillock who makes a performance of holding doors open for women, especially in front of an audience, but he never bothers to hold the door open for elderly men.

We don't need a return of chivalry, if we ever had it, because the problem we now have with inconsiderate fit and able commuters is that they were taught "chivalry" instead of human decency.

Men used to be expected to give up seats for ladies just because they were of the "weaker sex". Too weak to vote, to be capable of doing work worth full, male pay for example, so naturally too weak to stand. These men were emphatically not brought up to eye their fellow men and see if one of them looked like he needed the seat more, or could do with a hand with the door. They were taught to assume that women were automatically less capable, and that was it.

We're now in an age of greater equality, in which it has been almost universally acknowledged that women can vote wihout their brains melting and such, so holding the door open for women just because they're women went out of the window, and we're being treated as they treat their fellow men.

With that camouflaging veneer out the way, we now all get to see how thoughtless some men are.

Personally, when I open a door, I never check the sex of the person immediately behind me before I decide whether to hold it open for him or her or rudely let it swing back in their face. I just hold the door open, always, whether they're male, female, or an asexual alien from the planet Neptune, because the person behind me is a person, and presumably deserving of common courtesy.

Being the kind of person who clocks whether the next person in line is a woman or not is not something to brag about and never was.

"I raised my son to be benevolently sexist, IABU?"
"YABU"
"No I'm not"

My son “ladies first”
My daughter “ noooo it’s dark”

LadyJane

"Age before beauty" might be a good response for her in that kind of bickering.

elQuintoConyo

I am raising my son, and indeed my daughter, to be a feminist who is compassionate to all.

I was highly pissed off on a train once when I gave up my seat for a woman struggling standing with a new born. The man beside me didn't offer. The reason I was pissed off was not because he was a man, but because he was on the outside so I had to say to him, "can you get out please so I can offer this lady a seat" which he did. I wanted the baby to cry in his ear for the entire journey, but sadly it didn't.

You never know why someone may need a seat. There are a lot of selfish people out there but also don’t assume that just because someone looks like they might not need a seat, that they don’t.

That's true Lucky

I have brought my boys up to have good manners, however DS1 would be totally oblivious to what's going on around him and probably wouldn't even notice that someone needed a seat!

I don’t agree. As I said, i’m going through the menopause. I am one of those that is really suffering with it. I may “appear” as physically able to stand as my male counterpart but actually I get dizzy spells and sitting down helps. But hey, I should just tough it out so as not to show any “feminine weakness”.

I'm also going through the menopause and have almost no symptoms at all.

By your argument, a man should give me his seat because I'm a 'weak woman'.

Bollocks to that.

Exactly it is hard enough to get equality without milking symptoms to get a seat on the bus which will be used, 100 fold, as reasons to discriminate against women in the areas wher it actually matters

Then you are very lucky Semster. Pooka I'm not even going to address what you said because it's absurd.

It certainly is not absurd. Women already deal with enough discrimination in the workplace and in life and you want to handover a licence to men to discriminate more!!! You may get your seat on a bus but alongside it 'proof' that women are lightheaded and fuzzy.
Ffs. Not me who is absurd.

So why are so many women on HRT (with all the associated risks) then? Are they just "milking it". I don't think so somehow.

Ofgs. Men could be on the bus with gout, high blood pressure, diabeted or heart problems. Who know what anybody is suffering but *do not, please, seek to make formal in any way, that women suffer more as it will be used AGAINST women when they are arguing for equal pay or an equal right to a career or an opportunity.
Do you really need this explained?
I am 48 by the way. I know the menopause might hit me but the LAST thing i would do would be to ask for allowances to be made for me. Im an ambassador for all younger women still hoping for equality and respect.
I might ring in and say my car needs a service so im taking the morning off but i will not be saying 'i feel weak and fuzzy'.

Gawd

Middle aged men can have plenty of medical issue - ever heard of prostatitis, just for one example of 'men's issues'. Bringing the menopause into it to try and prove women are the weaker sex is pathetic.

So why are so many women on HRT (with all the associated risks) then? Are they just "milking it". I don't think so somehow

Nobody is saying someone with genuine symptoms is milking something. But not all women have any debilitating symptoms because they’re women.

I never said women were the weaker sex, just that our bodies are not the same as men. I think you must be aware of that? And I don't think a woman having to lie about why she is taking the morning off is progress.

They may not be the same but that doesn’t mean that woman need to sit more than men do (or vice Verca)

What you seem to be forgetting is everyone is individual so your sweeping statements and expectations simply don’t work. My mum in her 60s is more than capable of standing if needed, my dad of similar age couldn’t stand at all.

Prostatitis is treatable with medication and doesn't impact a man's ability to stand on public transport so it's not comparable to some feeling like they might pass out from period pain or menopausal symptoms. If men want to complain about women not being equal because of that they can feck off.

For the most part, women are not as physically strong as men

I never said women were the weaker sex

Well, Pooka did talk about "milking it", hence why I said that. And I never said all women, but the fact is men do not go through periods/pregnancy/menopause. Yes they may have other health issues that we don't have. As, I said, men and women's bodies are different. If a man said to me "I'm feeling unwell, can I sit down" then yes I'd give him my seat. But I don't think women should have to lie about or hide these things.