To have raised a gentleman?

[Storm4star]

Off the back of another thread, where people are saying men shouldn’t have to give up their seat for a pregnant lady,

I raised a gentleman. He’s in his 20s and gives up his seat on a train for an elderly person or pregnant woman. We had a lovely moment in Japan where he gave up his seat for an elderly lady (men are notoriously bad there for thinking they take precedence over women) and we saw her rummaging in her bag and, as she got off, she gave him a beautiful handmade gift she had there, to say thank you. It was such a sweet moment. Is this so wrong?

Why does feminism mean that men can’t show manners and decency to other human beings because they are female? Is it really so insulting? My son cooks and cleans and is fully aware that any woman in his life should be treated as an equal. However, he is also kind and caring and was raised to treat women respectfully and with kindness. To help them if they need help.

For the most part, women are not as physically strong as men. Men do not need to go through pregnancy, childbirth, period issues, menopause (which I am certainly currently struggling with) etc etc. Why are we pretending that our bodies are the same? Is equal pay and treatment dependant on proving you are physically as “tough” as a man?

I’m actually not sorry that I have raised him to be the man he is, because I am proud of him. I think feminism is a bit skewed to think that we have to be “just like men” to earn equality.

Yea I also want to know what taat means as i’ve Been accused of it!

This isn't about your son op.

However, I've noticed in life any man who describes himself as a gentleman is usually anything but.

I don’t think what your son did is just something that should be just expected of men to be honest. I’m a woman and would give my seat up for someone who needs it more than me. It’s nothing to do with being a gentleman, it’s just a person being a decent human being and both sexes should have to do it.

Yes indeed. Self-appointed gentlemen are usually the ones who pay for the date then ask for the money back when you don't suck their dick.

"But it seems like lately men deliberately don’t offer seats to prove a point. ... Why is it now that only women are offering seats?"

Where on earth are you getting this from!?

But it seems like lately men deliberately don’t offer seats to prove a point. And I am wondering how we got to this. Is it because feminists rant “I can open my own door”.

And a classic example of men's crap decisions being blamed on women (if only those silly feminists would shut up, men would behave better - like that ever worked)

I suggest you teach your son that his actions and decisions aren't the responsibility of women (or even feminists).

In the meantime, all 3 of my children - male and female, will offer their seat to anyone who needs it.

Pushing past someone to get to a door before them so that you can open it for them is odd. Not holding the door open for others if you got there first, and instead just letting it close in the next person's face after you've walked through is extremely rude imho, so you would have to be a very rude and spiky person to tell whoever is polite enough to do it that you can open your own doors...

Feminism doesn't mean you don't have manners! Come on

Can guarantee he'll be an arsehole. Men whose mums crack on like that always are.

@formerbabe

He probably wouldn’t describe himself as a gentleman! He just classes it as things you should do for others. That is all on me! Lol

@funinthesun18
‘And to all the others that have said the same. I also have a DD and she has done and would do, all the things my son has done,

As I said upthread, this was in response to another thread on here. I’m not saying my son is special for doing decent actions, nor would I expect any different from my Dd. This thread was a specific response to the “is chivalry dead” thread and was written with that thread in mind. I can see why, taken on it’s own, it may look odd. But it was in context to that.

Too true pigeon. Bet he's done a charitable gap year in a developing country too.

My son or daughter would certainly give up their seat to an elderly or disabled person, or a Mum with a young child. So would my DH or I.

Not long ago we had the situation in reverse as our son (usually fit and able bodied) was travelling with us on holiday. He had crutches and was non weight bearing with a plaster on, we had to get on a bus to take us from the terminal to the plane. DH went ahead and secured a seat at the back of the bus for our son. As he sat down an older man approached (no apparent disability or walking stick), obviously hoping to get the seat himself. He stood and glared at DH, then when DS hopped onto the bus and was given the seat he looked annoyed and backed away. It works both ways when we have injuries, regardless of age or gender.

TAAT aren't really allowed on MN.

I think you've completely misunderstood feminism.

I think your son sounds great, but if you're thinking about why men no longer stand up on the tube but leave it to women there was no need to mention your son at all, was there? So, massive stealth boast without the stealth.

When posters reply with a , does it mean 'taking the biscuit'? Or something else?

Sorry OP, your son sounds lovely but agree with PP that this has nothing to do with feminism. Feminists do not insist that a man (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't give up god seat for a pregnant or elderly woman. Seats/courtesy should be offered up to anyone more vulnerable than them, whatever sex.

I don't think you've done anything wrong OP, but I don't think men deserve special applause for simply not being sexist dicks. Let me show you what you'd look like if your post was about your daughter:

I raised a lady. She's in her 20s and gives up her seat on a train for an elderly person or pregnant woman.

My daughter cooks and cleans and is fully aware that any man in her life should be treated as an equal. However, she is also kind and caring and was raised to treat men respectfully and with kindness. To help them if they need help.

For the most part, women are not as violent as men. Is equal pay and treatment dependant on proving you are physically as “non-violent” as a woman?

If anyone posted that they'd say "so what", so as kind as I'm sure your son is m, I have to say "so what".

If he really wants to help women, he can. He can check the casual sexism of his friends and peers, refuse to laugh at sexist jokes, accept that some places and spaces are not for him and respect the fact that women may not want him in their space, as nice as he is. It takes more than giving up seats for people who need hem more than you - it's about a culture change and I absolutely believe men can be part of that change, even in little ways.

It's good that your son is polite, kind, gentle, and respectful to other people. Sounds like you've been a great parent and raised a great kid.

However, the fact that a small and simple act of basic decency prompted a woman to give him a thank you gift and you to start a gushing thread about what a gentleman he is, is why we need feminism.

People should treat people decently because they're people and we all have to share space on this planet. A man behaving respectfully towards a woman should not inspire a mass celebration, it should be a total non event. Like a driver letting someone cross the road, or telling someone to go ahead of you in the queue because you're still dithering over your purchase. It's like when people tell me I'm soooo lucky because my partner shares the housework and childcare equally. I'm not going to fawn and act grateful because a grown man behaves kindly and responsibly towards his own family. That's the absolute bare arsed minimum I expect from him. As a pp said, imagine if that was all you had to do to be considered brilliant as a woman. Seriously, raise the sodding bar. No one thinks men should dissolve into grateful tears every time a woman behave decently towards them, they just expect it. When women don't feel a special rush of gratitude for men not being arseholes to them, they just expect it, then I'll get out the bunting.

The only time I was obviously in need (heavily pregnant on crutches with spd) it was usually women and old men that gave me a seat.

I am a strident feminist, and I also have a lot of sympathy with OP.

Yes, if we did have equality then it would be absurd to extend all these little courtesies to women.

But, erm, we don't.

I interpret all the door-openings and seat-surrenderings as a little acknowledgement along the lines of "We know you still, overwhelmingly, have the shitty end of the stick and have probably been yelled at by a dickhead within the last 48 hours/been paid less than a male colleague/born the brunt of all reproductive and contraceptive efforts for most of your relationship - so here, have a seat for a minute."

I get that there are some feminists who want to reject these little niceties as a starting point, so no feminist-enemy can throw it back in their face. Fine.

But I really can't stand those men who imagine that they've got feminism in a sort of "gotcha" situation when they refuse point blank to concede any little chivalrous niceties and cannot understand that it's the least they can fucking do whilst they continue to enjoy their massive male privilege. My preferred way round would be: FIRST treat women like equal humans, THEN take back all the chivalrous bits.

So this old Japanese woman was walking about with a "beautiful handmade gift" in her bag on the off chance some one would give her their seat?

But, yes, chivalry was based on a massively condescending view of women, of course.

It was sort of "Look, we know we do all the important stuff and have all the power, but we'll make this huge gushing deal about how pretty you are and how delicate you must be etc etc".

Essentially bullshit.

Ok but the other thread was about x amount of men, several I believe that just sat there and the op was the only one that offered her seat. And she got numerous responses along the lines of why should the man give up the seat. She asked is chivalry dead that not one of these several men offered their seat..

So, I am saying, some of us do still raise sons to be chivalrous but Is that considered wrong in today’s society, and if so, why?

I’m really struggling as to why that is so hard to understand?

Ever noticed a man do something nice/kind for a woman and then immediately and instinctively look around at other men in the area all smug and pleased with himself because he's the bigger better gentleman?

Ever seen a woman do that?

One of the many reasons I'm sceptical of guys who have to proclaim how nice they are.

It's not wrong to be kind. It is wrong to be kind solely because it'll boost your ego or benefit you socially. It is wrong to be specifically "chivalrous" because it's built on an antiquated value system that sees women as inferior and other men as competition.

I hope very much that any of my dgc, or indeed any ‘fit’ person, would give up a seat to a man or woman in obvious need. Congratulations on your son’s good manners. Not all the young are so considerate.