To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

[bigoldscaredycat]

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

No, Storminamug - it's not. It's very, very different.

Ask yourself why many women, left wing feminists and lesbians, who fought alongside LGB groups for equality, in the 80's and 90's - who were LGB allies and friends - are now scared by the transactivist movement.

angrybirdroar.wordpress.com/2018/03/28/watching-the-terfs/ Explains it quite well.

yes I do fucking dare say she’s a woman. Because she is. You don’t have to like it

Boo- What about the victim (that you profess to care so much about) and their family? Do they also have to like it? Do they have to nod and smile and agree that this violent male rapist is a woman?

I’m sure you can see how it comes across as though the feelings of the violent male rapist are more important to you than those of the victim.

Violent male rapists’ feelz > children’s safety

Skarossinkplungerridesagain

Your family member presumably has gender dysphoria?

I don't think anyone denies that this is a real and crippling condition. And that presenting as the opposite sex helps to alleviate the symptoms.

The problem arises when legal rights are ceded, based on the fantasy that they are actually the opposite sex.

I don't think that's a difficult scenario to understand.
I realise that pushing the fantasy may make your family member feel better. But it's never going to really work, because you can't make everyone else believe it.

They will consistently encounter disbelief. That's not a good way to live.

Better to reconcile to the actual facts, which is that they have gender dysphoria, not that they have a boy brain in a girl body.

For what it's worth, many professionals say that this is a real problem with young women. And that those who transition are either on the autistic spectrum, same-sex attracted, or have suffered from some kind of sexual trauma (or witnessed it in others).

To most people, that makes far more sense of the reason why they may want to reject their 'femaleness' (gender).

Either way, it does of course make a tremendous difference when it's the other way round. Men identifying as women.

There are 14,000 men in prison for sex offences, as opposed to 120 women.

Self ID will allow each and every one of those men to claim the right to the female estate.

Given that there only 5000 women in prison, in total, one would hope that this is going to be addressed.

A baby raping paedophile being allowed to attack women in prison, doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

It's like the 80s when all homosexuals were child abusers and HIV was the gay disease.

No it isn't. It's about being able to call a male rapist what he is and not disappearing the global problem of male sexual violence in a lie that women are similarly violent.

We'd better get used to this. Trans organisations, MPs, journalists organisations just parrot 'Transwomen are women' and with that magical spell the rest of us must shut up about concerns for the safeguarding of children, risks to women from all the sex offenders hiding under this umbrella, women's sport, intimate care treatment in hospitals and so on.

It's a spell that has transfixed the rest of society into abandoning decades of knowledge about how predators, abusers and paedophiles work. Of course most trans people aren't abusers and paedophiles. But as we are now seeing, abusers and paedophiles are sheltering under the trans umbrella and being given an uncritical welcome by too many people who should know better. When public funded organisations, charities and political parties argue the case for Ian Huntley's rights to transition to a woman in prison, when papers promote the rights of this sex offender, then we are in trouble:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender

@DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg

It would indeed be far too simple to look at a brain and be able to tell categorically whether that person is male or female. However overall there are differences between female and male brains.

Studies consistently find differences in thickness of cortical matter and white matter connections as well as the volumes of certain brain areas.

No. A couple of studies have found some small similarities in brain structure between males and FTMs (all homosexual) and homosexual MTFs and women. They have found no similarities between heterosexual (the majority) MTFs and women and have instead found areas where there is a particular structure that is different to both in the area of the brain connected with self image etc. Not a neuroscientist so may not have explained that well but that's how I understand it.

There have been a number of studies looking at transgender brains, where they have corrected for sexual orientation.

more men are violent because of how we raise our children

We? Does that mean mothers then?

Not a woman, a trasnwoman, i.e. biologically genetically male, identifying as a woman. Sick and disgusting, should be in a Male prison.

Of course most trans people aren't abusers and paedophiles. But as we are now seeing, abusers and paedophiles are sheltering under the trans umbrella and being given an uncritical welcome

Exactly. We can all understand the argument of what's the harm, live and let live. Who cares if you are just addressing a man by female pronouns and calling him Gina.

Until you get rapists attacking women in prison, men beating women in sport, demanding they be allowed to administer smear tests, or removing child safeguarding protocols.

Most people would have a problem with that.

The same people who live and let live.

But by that time, it's too late. Laws are passed and your choice is removed.

Public opinion won't count.

There have been a number of studies looking at transgender brains, where they have corrected for sexual orientation.

Yes. Those are the ones I am talking about. Most don't. The vast majority of these studies are tiny samples of homosexual males. And they found that the sexual orientation did make a difference. Suggesting that there is something else going on with straight MTFs and backing up Blanchard's typology.

They also don't/can't control for plasticity.

OP, I would not think you are being "unreasonable" for disputing thar this person is a women if you were doing so simply on ideological grounds that had nothing to do with their actions.

The fact that you seem to find it especially noteworthy that this person has done awful things, and this appears to increase your objection towards this person being classed as a woman, well there might be unreasonable things going on here.

No JAPAB. This person committed male pattern violence with a penis.

Firstly point is men can't be women.

Second point is why that matters.

This person is not a woman. Being transferred to a female prison is why that matters.

They also don't/can't control for plasticity.

How is plasticity a possible confounding factor when we're looking at trans people vs natal females or males?

JAPAB, I'm sure I've seen quite a few people who are pro self ID who have said that sex-offenders should be excluded. Not a view I agree with either, but the argument is definitely 'out there'

The world has gone insane. Men can rape babies then claim to be women - and some people believe this is ok, becasue you know self ID and all that. This has gone beyond being PC now, it’s gone absolutely insane. What was wrong with just being a man and a woman?

Ereshkigal object to the penis bit and you are doing a different thing than objectig to the behaviour bit. Objecting to someone being a woman because of pure physicality is a different thing than bringing behavioural stereotypes into it, and making an issue of someone acting or not acting in accordance with them.

Objecting to someone being a woman because of pure physicality is a different thing than bringing behavioural stereotypes into it, and making an issue of someone acting or not acting in accordance with them.

It is a fact that men commit more sexual and other violent acts than women. Both against women and other men. This was a male crime.

I am objecting to this violent male being classed as a woman and sent to a woman's prison because male.

Its a man, with a rapey penis.

If you attempt to argue that this is a woman then you are really really wrong.

.

I really do hope that someone in prison will ensure this scum of a man needs extensive corrective surgery himself.

ToetoToe, so what? If a man who has become a woman commits fraud but has never been violent or committed sexual offences then why can't they go to a women's prison? When you look at the trans community as a whole you get a distorted picture, they are not a whole, they are individuals and not all of them are exploiting a flawed system.

My point is that while the "They're not really women" argument is going on we are missing the real issues.