Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

932 replies

bigoldscaredycat · 18/07/2018 06:21

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

OP posts:
Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 18/07/2018 10:56

I think they both have equal rights and if they want a smear they can request one.

imlateagain · 18/07/2018 10:57

And women are not smaller and weaker than men. That’s just what we are raised to believe. Men are tougher and more violent. Women are small and weak. Simply not true.

Booboo, that assertion means everything else you say lacks credibility.

Newmanwannabe · 18/07/2018 10:59

When you commit such an abhorrent act you are put in prison to be excluded from society. That person with the xy chromosomes should be put with other people with xy chromosomes. Why should they be afforded the privilege of a social identity? Isn’t everything else taken away- clothes/belongings/Family?. When/if they come out of prison they then can reintegrate into society as they prefer to be known.

Wouldn’t that then be incentive enough for some to not do things to get out into prison in the first place?

Noqont · 18/07/2018 11:01

But hands up if out in public if any of you keyboard warriors would tell him to his face knowing it could impact on his mental health.

I wouldn't be so ill mannered to do that. But it doesn't mean that I would lie about it either. There's one thing omitting to point out the obvious to spare someone's feelings when it's not causing harm to anyone else. And it's something quite different to being asked to lie at times when it is important that someone's biological sex is identified. As in the case of the male (not female) that raped a baby, and is a huge risk to children and biological women.

Fromage · 18/07/2018 11:03

How do male and female brains differ, please?

ToeToToe · 18/07/2018 11:03

Lots of men love to tell women that there are 'boy brains' and 'girl brains' and that 'girl brains' don't like maths and science. See where I'm going with this?

It's worth noting that this man did not just rape a baby, he also killed a child - but was never criminally charged (because he was only 11?)

This is a psychotically dangerous male we are talking about here - and transitioning into a transwoman has apparently had little effect on this fact - as he has also assaulted female prisoners in jail.

There is no place for violent males in women's prisons - this is not an isolated case.

HelsinkiMan · 18/07/2018 11:05

Penis owner XY chromosome person who used to have a universally accepted name, no longer allowed to be used on MN and around some people I consider to have odd thinking.

Ereshkigal · 18/07/2018 11:05

But science doesn't support this... the brains of males and females are different and the brains of trans people more closely resemble the gender they identify with, rather than their biological one.

No. A couple of studies have found some small similarities in brain structure between males and FTMs (all homosexual) and homosexual MTFs and women. They have found no similarities between heterosexual (the majority) MTFs and women and have instead found areas where there is a particular structure that is different to both in the area of the brain connected with self image etc. Not a neuroscientist so may not have explained that well but that's how I understand it.

Noqont · 18/07/2018 11:06

And women are not smaller and weaker than men

Eh? Well that's not true is it. Most men generally are stronger than the average woman. To think otherwise is deluded and ridiculous.

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 18/07/2018 11:06

Lying to a trans persons face would affect my mental health. I'm autistic and lying has a visceral effect on me.
Why do they win in mh top trumps?

FeistyOldBat · 18/07/2018 11:07

Confessions is perfectly correct about the socialisation we women undergo all our lives to be what 'society' regards as women. Men undergo the same process, let's not forget that, it's just that the objectives are different.

It seems to me that it follows from that, that to become a woman, a man has to undergo that same socialisation process as women, that everything he's learned and experienced as a man has, somehow, to be replaced with a set of women's experiences to replace those he's presumably rejected. Until/if that can be done, it's not possible for a man to become a woman, or vice versa. Unless we change the foundation of the way society functions and raise everyone the same. Fat chance of that.

To get back on topic, IMO this person is a man and should be in a men's prison. He also needs assessment by a psychiatrist of the nature of his history of violence. Does he regret those crimes? Does he have a sense of right and wrong or doesn't he care about right and wrong, only his own gratification. Is he always going to be a threat to other people? None of that is related to which gender he identifies as.

Ereshkigal · 18/07/2018 11:07

All this means is that some males have outlier male brains in terms of some structural makeup. Not that they have female ones.

Ereshkigal · 18/07/2018 11:08

Lying to a trans persons face would affect my mental health. I'm autistic and lying has a visceral effect on me.
Why do they win in mh top trumps?

This Thanks

HelsinkiMan · 18/07/2018 11:09

Lying to a trans persons face would affect my mental health. I'm autistic and lying has a visceral effect on me.
Why do they win in mh top trumps?

I am feel the same way about lies, I have no ASD dx. We aren't XY chromosome so...

Mummyoflittledragon · 18/07/2018 11:12

*why do they win mh top trumps?” Agreed

Sadly this is what it boils down to. Not just for you but any vulnerable person.

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 18/07/2018 11:13

But my nephew wouldn't deny your autism, and if you go around saying things that hurt other people simply because they are true such as 'you're fat' because they are you mustn't be a pleasant person to be around.

Neededastealthname · 18/07/2018 11:14

To the posters arguing the science of transitioning from female to male/male to female, you are what is fucking wrong with this situation! A baby was raped and the perpetrator has been given the freedom to go to a women's prison and it's because of idiots like you that argue the science, who fucking cares about the technicalities of transitioning when people are taking advantage of the technicalities of the law? Why the actual fuck is the focus in any way on trans rights when it should at this point be on the people who would abuse those rights? Stop arguing the fucking science and focus on the depraved child rapists that are benefitting from the transactivism row.

ToeToToe · 18/07/2018 11:14

Nobody's denying your nephew's dysphoria - but nobody can actually change sex.

Noqont · 18/07/2018 11:14

, and if you go around saying things that hurt other people simply because they are true

So you do accept your nephew is a biological female then?

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 18/07/2018 11:15

Ooh you nearly caught me there, you devious genius!

ToeToToe · 18/07/2018 11:16

But Neededastealthname - it's these (flawed) 'science' arguments that are allowing men to say they have changed sex, and enter the female estate. It's how they've done it.

Storminamug · 18/07/2018 11:38

It's like the 80s when all homosexuals were child abusers and HIV was the gay disease.

OvaHere · 18/07/2018 11:41

I'd just like to repost this excellent summation of the dangers of self iD by @homefromthehills in this thread. It might help those unfamiliar with some of what is at stake.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309112-Who-is-trans-re-GRA

The biggest single change that is coming is the most dangerous.

In 2004 the debate that created the GRA said specifically it was designed for transsexuals - not crossdressers or others. It was said most would have surgery and so did not make it mandatory but insisted on medical diagnoses that there would be reasons why surgery did not occur such as age or ill health. Most did, Around 60 - 70% I believe.

The doctors predicted that 5000 transsexuals existed and would be covered by the GRA. As of last week - 14 years on - 4990 have. Of which about 3000 are transwomen. The others are transmen.

The government is saying the GRA needs reform because it is not working for those for whom it was intended.

The above shows that is a complete lie. It is one of the best predictions of need and meeting of need in the history of usually useless government statistical predictions.

The entire push is from those who cannot get in for medical reasons and so want to shut off any medical assessment.

But - and here is the key - the GRC is not really the problem. The ability to change the birth certificate is. That was only agreed on the basis that medical assessment and diagnosis were involved and that doctors thought there was reason to why a medical condition might turn out to be the cause of transsexualism.

At present only 2000 - 3000 transwomen in the UK have altered birth certificates in that way.

Self ID not only will vastly increases that number it removes all argument of a medical reason to alter a birth certificate because doctors are no longer going to be involved in deciding the matter. People will be doing it themselves based on their perception.

Right now an altered birth certificate, pretence as it may be to many of you on here (which I do understand even though I have one), has a basis in medical evaluation and involves very modest numbers.

Those were the reasons it happened. I seriously doubt it would have done without the four figure number and medical involvement as backstops.

Half a million self declared legal women who have not gone near a doctor alters entirely the concept of the term women. It changes society in a huge way. We can all see that.

It is arguable that we transsexuals who used the GRA up to now did too. But if medical assessment is replaced by self declared feelings as cause to legally change sex there is no coming back from that. It is a revolution.

This is the battle that should be understood out there. Society in general should decide this. Not just trans people. Not just Feminists.

We need to ask the government why they are saying the GRA is not working when it clearly is given the 2004 debate. And how allowing people to declare their own sex on a birth certificate instead of the judgement of science and medicine as forever up to now is just a minor bureaucratic change.

If the country accepts it as that, fair enough. But I have a feeling most people do not know this is even a question being asked.

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 18/07/2018 11:42

Tbh I would avoid the subject, but if they brought it up I wouldn't lie then. So using your fat analogy, that could make me "[un]pleasant to be around" (nice bit of disablism there btw, well done), if an overweight person asked me if their bum looked big, I'd tell them yes. I wouldn't randomly go up to people and tell them they are fat. Hmm

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 18/07/2018 11:45

Plus "fat" is subjective, lying is harder with something objective.

HTH.