Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

If I were a conspiracy theorist I’d be wondering whether or not Jacob Rees Mogg was an agent of Vladimir Putin ... sowing lots of nonsense and fake news to destabilise UK plc

Last opinion poll had Irish support for EU membership at 92%

Anyway thegood thing to come out of politics in the past month is at least Boris Johnson has been busted.

The debate has kind of veered but thank you to those who answered it thoughtfully, and what has spoken to me most is the talk of the context of the war and staying friends with our neighbours, which I think does have a moral aspect.

GhostofFranks I think people would be fearful of leaving, The EU has lots of benefits but unfortunately due to the welfare system been so generous there are lots who do not come to work.

Similar in the UK, I think if the system had of been tighter like most other EUROPEAN countries except ours, it probably would not be so bad.

I have friends from Italy and Poland they think it is a joke they way you can choose not to work and the government will look after you.

It has been said by some friends if we in Ireland had a vote to exit, they might take the risk.

This is total nonsense. Ireland is extremely pro EU.

I don't understand your post. Labour party supporters know JC is a leaver. All the far left are

What don't you understand, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the remain camp as can be seen if you look back at the threads during the last GE and correlate the prominent pro corbyn/labour posters, there is a lot of revisionism going on as to labour party supporters knowing JC is a leaver, they are treating it as party political and instead of accepting that they personally might not be as left wing as they like to profess they can just disregard the ~60% labour constituencies who voted leave and tarnish them under the guise of guilt by association.

A lot of it screams of that they are happy for the "uneducated knuckle draggers" to support their side when it suits until they step out of line and listen to the wrong kind of millionaires.

@GhostofFrankGrimes

You are deluded in thinking the far left do not support leave.

morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1bff-why-the-morning-star-supports-a-leave-vote-1

For another reference point just look at corbyns voting record, its all visible and shows his stance against integration.

You trying to paint it as right-wrong/left-good is the exact person I am talking about.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/08/what-next-lexit-left-wing-eurosceptics-and-their-vision-brexit

www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/opinion/why-brexit-is-best-for-britain-the-left-wing-case.html

Not amongst the labour members and supporters I know. And anyway the referendum was cross party...part of the issue in my view

It was cross party, many people seem to ignore this however. I know may Bennites and others who treat politics as a team sport so have decided to ignore many inconvenient facts.

But it is who I mix with and my personal bias as to what I read online as a center right leaning remainer

I have just looked at the headlines on the Daily Mail website and one is that over a quarter of the babies born are now born to mothers who were from outside the UK.

I am a mother from outside the UK. My father was in the British Army and I was born in Germany, where he was serving at the time.

“Outside the UK” does not mean “not British”!

“Outside the UK” does not mean “not British”!

Anyway, why should it matter it ought to be celebrated by Leavers who categorically voted to encourage immigration, particularly of non-European peoples?

What I struggle with in conversations with many remainers who also like to consider themselves as more empathetic that those nasty Tory or Leave voters is the unwillingness to even try and understand how people are just desperate for change and this was their chance

I was in Margate the other day and around that area. Many parts are so run down (apart from little pockets that some artists have moved into and a nice shiny new art gallery ) there is so little there in way of investment why wouldn’t people give a change a chance

This is where Remain fell down a refusal to engage with such communities that were understandably angry after years of broken promises

I don’t agree that they will be better off but I can certainly understand why they feel they just might be

Of course far left don’t support the EU but many didn’t want to acknowledge they may be jumping into bed with Farage

But the EU is not a left thinking socialist experiment

What socialist would support the EU

I'm a remainer. I have not heard a single good reason or argument, based on fact, that we will be better off out of the EU. Thankfully I don't know many leavers in real life. The ones that do know, have based their decision on the a misconception that we are not currently a sovereign nation, and that the EU is undemocratic. They also share Britain First posts on FB.
I so yes I do feel morally superior to them, as I am not the one responsible for our country going down the pan. I am also terrified of what the future holds, which makes me furious.

And I'll hold leave voters in less contempt of one, just one, is able to tell me how Brexit can actually come to fruition without making us poorer, lose jobs, make food more expensive etc. Just tell me, facts not fantasy, why it will be good for me, my family, and my country. Not one has managed to tell me that yet, because the facts show the opposite to be true.

What socialist would support the EU

A politically and historically illiterate one.

Naming no names I've seen people posting about how they support European Federalism, free trade and freedom of movement because they hate neoliberalism, and almost in the same breath crowing about how clever they are compared to Brexiteers who don't understand what they're voting for. As fucking priceless as that is, it seems like quite a common theme among today's "left".

Compare and contrast with the debates on the EU decades ago - back then you had left wingers who actually understood what the hell they were talking about.

(Before it was the EU of course)

You are missing the point Sussex

People have been told for years that life will improve if they voted for x, y or z

The three main parties have all been in power have all made broken promises and many people’s lives simply didn’t improve despite the promises

*Brexiteers are accused of racism/xenophobia because many of those who voted to leave did so primarily in order to control immigration, which for some at the thicker/UKIP /EDL end of the spectrum somehow translates into a white Britain magically cleansed of Muslims and job-stealing Poles.

They are accused of stupidity because there is no good argument for leaving the EU. It’s like watching a country commit to cutting its own throat because of a referendum that only occurred because of Tory internal politics, and whose outcome was as it was because of poor understanding of the issues, lamentable misinformation, and a complete indifference to NI.*

This

Its pretty obvious that since the referendum food prices have increased and the property market has stalled. These are real tangible consequences and I don't see it improving.

Enthusiasm
Heartbreakingly true. How have we left parts of the country so desperate for change that they would vote to cut their own throats.

The laziness and entitlement of the Remain campaign is as culpable as the dishonesty of the Leavers.

Tanith
I was also an army child, born in Germany. we count as British born as it’s occupied territory (still).

Its pretty obvious that since the referendum food prices have increased and the property market has stalled. These are real tangible consequences and I don't see it improving.

Brexit hasn't happened yet, these effects come down to currency drops, markets, foreign investors and companies getting spooked etc.

When Brexit hits we will be into a different stage, but the one we're at now is feeling the effects of fear and anticipation about a doomsday scenario being around the corner.