Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

I have just looked at the headlines on the Daily Mail website and one is that over a quarter of the babies born are now born to mothers who were from outside the UK.

It is not hard to understand people with concerns re immigration, education and the NHS if they live where you can’t get your child into a school, have no housing etc., voting to Leave

User, many of those babies are going to be British people even if their mothers weren't originally. That's what happens when you grow up somewhere, you actually get this mad idea that it's your country too and you feel patriotic about it.

But on a completely different note, one of the serious issues that the government is struggling with (and has been for a while now) is that the UK birthrate has been inadequate to produce the pensions and health support needed by the ageing and now retired baby boomers.

Look, here are the recent reports from the Office for Budget Responsibility:

obr.uk/fsr/fiscal-sustainability-report-july-2018/

If you read that report, you will see quite a clear, data-backed explanation for why the NHS is in trouble, and it's not because of immigrant mothers. It's because retired Britons are increasing in number relative to working Britons, and they are a massive draw on the government purse. There is simply not enough young working taxpayers to sustain their increasingly health needs.

At one point, we were importing all the extra young workers we needed. Now we've chased them out and the government has promised more money to the NHS, while simultaneously plumping for the version of leaving the EU that will cause the most economic harm and really hit the tax base that can be used for public services.

With the greatest respect Pineapple I worked from the age of 16. I do not receive a pension until I’m 67. So I’m not a draw on the government purse. All my age group will not receive a pension until late 60s. My sons pay shed loads of tax, as have my husband and I.

Great user, but that's beside the point. Have you read the report? (Actually there are loads of them - all good analysis.)They have the data explaining where the public spending is going.

I'm not the person you need to argue with, it's the department that keeps an eye on government spending. They are looking at what's really happening, not judging you on how hard you have or haven't worked.

And btw, your past taxes paid for services and pensions in the past, not your own. So it's today's generation who pay for today's retirees. We don't pay for ourselves.

Well I really done blame the young of today if they say “fuck it there’s no point in this work lark is there”. Also retirement age was 60 for women in the past not 67 as is now. But you seem to have an answer for everything

Why would they say that, user?

And if you're talking about increasing production, how? Are we going to magic up more land? Somehow force the cows to produce more milk?
The national dairy herd numbers and dairy farmer numbers have plummeted because the supermarkets have put them out of business.
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/02/21/thousands-of-dairy-farms-face-closure-as-debts-reach-crisis-leve/

Lots of farmers want to farm but our bullshit economy doesn’t let them. This is hugely down to the suits in London inflating the cost of living.

It needs a proper sort out and maybe, maybe this is the bloody leap we need to do it? Like Iceland and Norway who are doing FINE out of Europe

Norway invested their oil money, Britain spent it. (Just in case anyone is wondering why Norway is so rich.)

Fucking hell. I'm sorry, but you lot take the fucking biscuit, you really do. You make a stupid, ill-informed decision that will fuck us over for the next two generations, you can now see it falling to pieces around our ears because JUST LIKE WE SAID AT THE TIME, THERE WAS NO VIABLE PLAN, and WE'RE the problem because we think we're morally superior? First it was our fault because we wouldn't get behind the nonexistent plan like good little patriots, and then it was our fault because we didn't come up with a plan for you, and now it's our fault because we won't pretend we were all equally stupid and ill-informed? Sweet Jesus, do you have any concept whatsoever of taking responsibility and owning your mistakes?

Damn fucking right I feel fucking superior. You've seen to it I won't have anything else to write on my pauper's headstone, you are taking that one from me.

If I may, what I did find strange was that Boris, Farage and Cameron all jumped ship immediately. As though they didn’t want to be involved after all......

Well Cameron was voting for remain, there were many threads on here during the build up to the referendum that was treating it as party political (so in the case of MN anti Tory), and many remainers are still doing it now.

I have said it before and I think a few others have pointed it out as well, what I find funny especially on here and in my circle of friends is the vocal remainers who are laughing at the "turkeys voting for christmas" types by listening to millionaires as though the remain camp was not a vote backed by multinational business millionaires, talk about GDP percentage points, link to the FT and Economist and quote economists as proof they are enlightened and somehow more educated with facts.

Yet during the last GE the same people, some name change but a few stand by their hypocrisy will willfully dismiss the same experts and publications as "right wing media" as they pointed out how Corbyn would have a drastic effect on the economy.

There is a lot on the remain side who are treating this as a party political stance whilst ignoring the fact the leader is a long time eurosceptic.

This shit show has been slow burning hence why tony blair ran a manifesto pledge of having the eu referendum, and UKIP didn't become a force by taking Tory voters alone, if a lot of people realised this then they would realise that making stupid comments of not all voters who voted brexit are racist yet all racist voted brexit is actually trying to play guilt by association when the vote goes against theirs.

I don't feel superior. It's taken me a lot of time to read enough to feel like I finally understand what's happening and what the real options are, and now I'm furious at how the government is playing us all for fools and getting people to cheer for the more economically damaging course of action possible just because it comes wrapped up in the flag.

I’m prepared to stand up and say that I feel morally superior to knuckle-dragging Brexiteers.

Yup, Brexiteers are mainly uneducated (fact) racist idiots.

The thing that absolutely killed me was Sunderland voting Brexit. The major employer is Nissan. You can guess which way Nissan is going to go post-Brexit. I’ve concluded that the electorate of Sunderland are a bunch of turkeys (voting for Christmas).

Mind you, the electorate of Sheffield Hallam voted for a mentally unstable internet troll in preference to Nick Clegg ...

Norway invested their oil money, Britain spent it. (Just in case anyone is wondering why Norway is so rich.)

Norway's population is about the size of greater london, so it helped with their investment into many globalised commodities such as tobacco and nuclear arms whilst ignoring nato spending (until trump shouted his mouth off and made everyone commit)

So it is not really comparible

I’m prepared to stand up and say that I feel morally superior to knuckle-dragging Brexiteers.

I agree, look at this man who has spent his whole political career voting against any attempt at an ever closer union and says that EU freedom of movement has impacted on the british working class, he is just a "gammon" who you can feel morally superior over because of guilt by association..

Well aren't you such a pearl - thesearepearls!!!

How to kill a thread you obviously haven't read .

Corbyn supported remain. We barely here any left wing arguments for Brexit today. Leavers like to quote benn from the 70s and Stuff from the early 90s. Nothing current.

Brexit was largely about immigration and dislike of the “other”. Same thing happened to windrush generation in 50s and 60s. Dark chapters then and now in British history.

Oh well that’s me convinced then

Brexit is a right wing coup backed by billionaires who want to sell off what Thatcher didn’t.

I have no idea what that picture of Jeremy Corbyn was meant to represent in response to my post

He’s made himself irrelevant to the whole Brexit debate, hasn’t he? It’s not a bad strategy tbh. Watch the Tories implode, wait for the inevitable vote of no confidence, get the election he wants, walk into power .....

It has been said by some friends if we in Ireland had a vote to exit, they might take the risk. Mainly to stop immigration, it has put housing out of reach, rents are extortionate, jobs pay less especially trades people, You cant get a public hospital appointment, A&E is packed. Crime has gone through the roof. We just do not have the resources for all the extra people.

They have different reasons for supporting it. The far right want to end employment protections, sell bits of the NHS for profit, and end the postwar British cradle-to-grave welfare state. (Steve Baker and Jacob Rees-Mogg are on the record about that.) Farage placed big hedge bets on the UK going through hard times, so he's made millions from the referendum already via his hedge fund connections.

Corbyn views the EU as a free trade body that will stop him from nationalising everything, so he wants us to crash out but the Tories to take the blame so he can rebuild the economy with left-wing economics.
Pick your poison, as long as it involves economic mayhem.

Personally, I liked peace & stability and I was looking forward to the country finally recovering from the 2008 financial crisis. Our recovery stopped after the referendum, though. We have gone from being the fastest recovering economy in Europe to the one of the very slowest in less than two years.