Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

And actually we could sort out the NHS. It’s full of crooks. someone very close to me works as a salesman for a pharmaceutical company and makes his living selling items for a huge inflated price to the NHS.

We could actually make shit like that illegal.

I am a remainer but I don't like the lack of understanding of the positions of others at present.

People do not seem often enough to be able to put themselves into the shoes of others which is a great shame.

Solo

Stop thinking that everyone has to think exactly the way you do.

Then come back.

Same old what?

Actually listening to people’s fears and understanding them?

I don’t know anyone here is promoting the wonders of Brexit. I’m certainly not but, having had some contact with the working class I do understand why it’s happened and it’s nothing to do with racism

CantankerousCamel

So you suggest we can trade high paying jobs in banking, law, and manufacturing and have people work in farming?

Cantekerous I am totally with you on your sentiments - I would love us to stop getting involved in conflict and in an ideal world would dearly love use the money we spend on arms on making people's lives better. Unfortunately I just can't see brexit, especially under a Tory government that seems to be fast being taken over by the right of the party as being anything to feel encouraged about. If we end up being worse off after brexit then I wouldn't feel smug as a remain voter, I would be angry at the betrayal of people who were desperate to improve their lives.

So much time is being wasted on brexit that could have been put to better use.

Solo

No that’s not what I said. Why don’t you have another little read and get back to me.

I posted this on another thread but I think it’s relevant here.

I know lots leave voters who are delighted with the way things are going as they’d love to crash out with no deal and have the whole thing done and dusted.

They are well educated, free market capitalists of the older generation who are wealthy enough not to give a flying fuck about things like the NHS, small businesses, low paid workers, struggling families etc.

Some are really looking forward to the profit they will make from the misery Brexit will inflict on great swathes of the country.

They don’t have a moral problem with this. They see themselves as above the struggles of ordinary people and are bitterly ideologically opposed to EU regulation.

Discussion about the negative effects on the general populace as regarded as distasteful, embarrassing and distinctly déclassé.

Interestingly, immigration is not really on their radar. It was just a handy tool to whip up the populist vote.

They have zero interest in improving Britain for the majority of the population. They just want to be allowed to maximise profits without being told what to do by EU regulations to protect workers and safeguard food and safety standards.

Isit

Tony Benn said you’ll never know a true Tory government unless you have Brexit.

Same for labour governments. I am not suggesting that it’s not going to be difficult to adjust, but that at the end of that adjustment is the chance for a fairer, more democratic society and less money spent on things we don’t need and can’t afford.

Smile. If it wasn’t for pompous arses like you, we wouldn’t be in this mess HTH

You take what you want I suppose.

I know I’d rather look at the situation as it is, see the best in people and move forward. Some of you seem stuck on a loop. It happened, we had a referendum, the people chose to leave Europe, we invoked article 50.

That’s it. You can pretend that having a go at people like me will change those facts, or just get on with it.

What's really I intersting here is people are talking about being annoyed at people not listening to others years whilst simultaneously ignoring current expressed fears on this thread.

• fears

(Fat fingers)

Trouble is, how many people will end up suffering even more until such time as they realise that they are being exploited and vote them out? I just fear that this whole situation is about a small section of rich people who are set to do very nicely out of jettisoning inconvenient EU laws and bringing in new ones that are purportedly for slashing red tape but are ultimately there so that quality of products and services can be compromised and employee rights can be compromised for the benefit of big business and politicians.

Is

I don’t know.

I do know that I would like for us to be less involved in skirmishes abroad and able to farm our own lands.

That makes sense to me and, I think that we can achieve that.

Trouble is cantankerous that because almost half of those who voted, did so to remain, it's difficult when it's suggested that it was the 'will of the people' or 'the people voted'. Remember that Farage made it clear (and yes I accept that he doesn't speak for all brexit voters) that had the results come in so close the other way around then it wasn't the end of the argument. Because the margin of victory for leave was so slim, it's not the case that the overwhelming majority of people are happy with the decision.

Isit i agree but, it IS happening. Article 50 has been invoked. We can talk about how much it shouldn’t be happening but that doesn’t stop it happening

Cantankerous I agree but that's more of a long term utopian dream. It won't help the masses, including myself, at this moment in time who may feel like they are about to get stuffed.