Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Farage is saying he is listening but he is lying. When a lying, liar lies to you don't believe him because he is lying.

The British electoral system and political culture has meant all the politicians care about Basingstoke (key swing seat) and no one cares about Sunderland.

The needs of the severely disadvantaged have been ignored. But this is not the fault of the EU.

Join a Trade Union, join a political party or a pressure group. Get active, get involved do something but voting for Brexit is shooting yourself in the foot. And not just yourself but all the other members of the ignored and demonised working classes.

CantankerousCamel

I have no doubt that you are lovely person and not at all Cantankerous or Camel like.

I do see your point that many people have lost out to a more globalised world, and believe me, I am really critical of the EU where the EU is at fault, but the reasons people say they voted for Brexit are often based on fallacies. Just like the person confidently stating that too many rights have been taken over by the EU, but can't actually cite any.

The damage of Brexit is very real and we are already seeing the affects.

I honestly feel like banging my head against a wall.
People were upset with the government and didn't feel like they were listened to so they decided to punish them by voting to leave the EU.
They then have made it possible for the government to strip them of any remaining rights they might have which will probably make their lives a bit more shit.

And today May says that 70 'technical notices' are being published for households and business to set out how we can all prepare for a no deal brexit. Hint - if they are doing this a no deal brexit is not good news.

And a whole load of politicians are getting off on their blitz spirit wet dream and we've spent more money in the last two years achieving precisely nothing than we've spent in EU membership.

As quoted earlier immigrants pay £20 billion more in tax than they take in welfare and Healthcare.
not sure where this figure came from - if you google it several studies have found that the stats depend on who does the survey and whether they leave out important considerations
what is the definition of an 'immigrant' for example - try reading this.
fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/

Oh and to cap it all a person who isn't an elected leader of his party, a mere MP is effectively running the country and calling all the shots.
And Paisley'swell justified suspension was delayef so tge government could get their votes.

Yes, exactly, when the big wigs of London are going on about how marvellous everything is and how great life is while rural communities fall apart, damn right they’re going to fight for change when they feel they can.

In whatever form that takes.

Rather than rejecting what they have been saying as racist, or misguided, try listening to them.

drearydeardre

From the FT
www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

the 'blitz spirit' would do a lot of good to some of you on here
I know people who lived through the blitz - that is a very cheap shot from those who have absolutely no idea. Look up how many civilians were killed in the blitz.
but I digress

ah - the FT (behind a paywall) - that beacon of impartiality. I would rather believe FULL FACTS

try listening to them

That is a great idea as a general principle. How will that help, with the ongoing omnishambles, now?

Yep, that's why I get frustrated. Fed up with the government - totally fair enough. Leaving the EU will change nothing but hand them more power to make our lives crap. Wealthy people won't be the ones to suffer and neither will politicians. It's us.

My dad fought in ww2.
My mum lived in London during the blitz. My grandma delivered babies in the blitz. The majority of people who lived through the blitz are dead now. My mum was 11 when ww2 started so could remember it vividly. She'd be 90 now. How old are the people you know dreary ?
It was the romantic idle that some people think it was mostly grey drudgery.
Read the mass observation dairies if you don't believe me.

SoloD you suspect I don’t know what I am talking about? I have given an example of how the system is abused. I also stated that the European Union has evolved and no longer bears any resemblance to the Common Market which Ted Heath took us into. What qualifies you to judge anyone

*It wasn't

drearydeardre

It's all the fault of the mainstream media?

user1457017537

Sorry, must have missed the example you gave. Will have a look and see if I can see it. Also, you said that rights had been taken by the EU. I would be interested to know which ones?

I would say now we focus on

Producing our own food

Buying local

Becoming self sufficient and having something to trade other than men in suits.

Just remember every time you discuss the UK as this useless country that produces nothing of merit and doesn’t even farm its own fields because the EU paid it not to, you’re not strengthening the remainers argument. By all accounts that sort of shit is WHY people wanted to leave

User - it's a bit of a myth that voters back in the 70s had no idea that Europe would become more integrated:

medium.com/@UKIPNFKN/uk-voters-knew-the-1975-referendum-was-about-both-an-economic-political-union-with-the-rest-of-2f565b972cd6

I'm off to find a wall.

(Honestly do you know how long that would take and that no country has done that yet?)

CantankerousCamel

All very worthy ideas, but it will require a significant drop in living standards and a huge drop in government spending, so less money being spent on the NHS.

Is that really what you want?

Of course not all remainers are virtue signallers who give in easily to peer pressure but all virtue signallers who easily give in to peer pressure are remainers.

On polling day my Facebook feed was largely filled with "if you're not a racist you'll vote remain like me!"

Less money spent on NHS? Not necessarily.

Maybe we can stop spending millions bombing other countries, which would mean we need to give less in aid to other countries.

I would see our armies disbanded and our fields farmed in a heartbeat.

CantankerousCamel

I don't think anyone thinks that. I mean we lead in the world in many fields, Rolls Royce engines are the second largest producer of jet engines in the world, Brilliant feats of technical engineering.

But because of Brexit they are having to shift jobs to Germany so they have have their engines certified by EASA because the CAA won't be ready.