Aibu or is school, regarding discipline?

[Imustbemad00]

Would like any information anyone can give me regarding secondary schools and discipline procedures.
My child’s secondary school is strict. I knew it was strict, partly why I chose it. However, in reality, it is causing so many problems. My child has changed so much since starting there, unhappy, suffering with mental health and has developed a bad attitude problem and I will admit is being quite naughty at school and at home. Im worried.

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

The sanctions for bad behaviour are extreme. My child has spent a lot of time in isolation, which means out of lessons. Not learning. Not talking to another person all day. Not great for a child already struggling with mental health.

The school also give them double detentions, meaning my child is was in school for 9 hours and 45mins today without talking to another child or being in any lessons, arriving home at 6.30pm.

I try to work with them as I know my child’s behaviour is the cause of punishments, but honestly feel they are way over the top and their approach is making things worse. They say that those are their policies and that is that.

I’m thinking of moving schools but worry my child’s behaviour could worsen if boundriers were relaxed. But equally they could flourish if not so unhappy and stressed.

So Aibu to think the schools policies are over the top? Is it normal?

And interesting point about the ‘poorer’ schools having more of a need for better pastoral care, and avoiding the outstanding schools. I will definitely look into some of them more and make some calls

Your child has been and is being brainwashed.
This is indoctrination along the lines of Scientology and Polygamous sects: 'Follow our doctrine or you'll end up as trash.'
Get your child away from that school. Do not give the child a choice, just do it, now. Keep your child home from school next week while you contact the Education Authority. While you're at it you can tell them what's going on in that school.

It’s so hard to paint the full picture. I wish I could post a link to the ofsted. It’s literally outstanding. It sounds great there on paper. The very well behaved kids do thrive and will probably do very well. There are a lot of opportunities there, especially in terms of careers and helping children believe they can achieve any job they want.

In reality they are tested in every subject at the beginning and end of each term and are constantly being moved up and down sets as a result. Some teachers issue demerits for getting a question wrong on a test. The teachers have to do with new pupils every term rather than every year.

Some of the teachers are lovely. But most, sound brainwashed themselves. You can’t hold a proper conversation with them about these concerns because they literally just quote their mantra, the policies. There is a universal answer for every question or concern. It’s like hardly any of the teachers have their own personal opinions or views.

What I’m trying to say is it’s not all bad. But clearly doesn’t suit my child and I will never ever agree with the disciplinary procedures.

It doesn’t suit your child - and that’s what matters.

My youngest goes to a free school - opposite end of the scale from your school. Very different from the norm these day, progressive, (very different from middle son’s grammar). Very much based on the philosophy followed by the school’s in this film www.mltsfilm.org

I love the school, it isn’t perfect, but Ds3 is thriving in the way we hoped he would there. However, it’s really not a school that suits everyone and when people tell me they’re thinking about sending their kids there I tell them to make sure they know what they are signing up for because it is very different and they need to understand how the school works (or they’ll panic). I’m not sure it would have been the right School for Ds2. I do know that ds2’s school (strict, boys grammar) would have turned Ds3 into a mass ball of anxiety and possibly triggered some MH issues, even though it suited ds2.

Although the description you have given of the school sounds awful to me, there will be some who do fine in the environment, but it isn’t suiting your son.

Bah at misplaced apostrophe - bloody autocorrect.

Lots of schools do have isolation. My school does as do the other secondary schools in the same trust. But it's from start of school until 30 mins after the other children have left- so 7 hours. My school does not have draconian expectations of students in terms of behaviour but being rude to a teacher would get you a day in isolation.

If the school are not sympathetic to your child's mental health problems then that would be enough for me to move them. Qualifications can be achieved whenever at whatever age. Mental health problems should be the priority as damage done now can be lifelong.

It sounds as if the staff have been told to toe the party line. Given the state of some schools at the moment the staff might be terrified to say what they really think.

I think those schools don't want children with any SEN, behavioural or pastoral needs as those don't contribute to grades and statistics and take time and care to manage. These systems are designed to weed out the kids who can't "self regulate" all the time. But actually all kids are entitled to an education.

OP I would vote with your feet. It won't get better. Your poor DD she sounds stressed and anxious. There are schools that have high behavioral standards but much better pastoral and SEN support even if they aren't "outstanding".

But why choose it? It sells itself on this craziness. It positively promotes it. Parents and media lap it up. Why did you feel this was a suitable setting for your son? Of course move him because the school isn't going to change.

Is it in Reading by any chance?

The question is did you know this before sending him

OP - I work in a strict state academy. We don't use Isolation, there's no Isolation room.
It's similar to what you say though about staff only sticking to the party line and using a lot of corporate/policy speak.
I'm leaving - it's not for me, as a teacher. Pastoral care first for me, every time.

Sounds like Thomas Telford School!!

Sceptics amongst you need to go to Michaela and see it begore you judge. I don’t work there, but I am a teacher. It’s inspiring and the children are happy and proud. There’s no bullying and their results are phenomenal.

Didn’t think they’d had any results for GCSEs yet?

Sounds like that Yarmouth academy.

This was my first thought

-There’s no bullying
Schools that say that worry me. Of course there will be some bullying / it’s the nature of putting lots of kids together. Saying there isn’t any means it just isn’t recognised (at best, ignored or the victims are blamed.

I agree with you completely @NotmeNoNoNo

As mentioned before yes I knew it was strict. Did not know about isolation. Did not know how often it’s used.
I was in favour of the longer school day, and the way they teach respect. But I no longer think it’s about respect. It’s about conforming.
I also did not know when I picked the school how it would impact my child or that my child would struggle with sticking to the very strict rules. I hoped it would be beneficial in some way.
I must say bullying seems rare and is dealt with strongly. Another reason I picked it. My child was bullied before. I do worry about what must go on in some less strict
Schools. We are close to areas with lots of gangs ect.

I will google the mentioned yrmouth school too.

OMG!
Try and impose those conditions on adults in a work environment and see what happens.

Track the teacher
This means you keep your eyes on the teacher whenever he or she is talking. You never turn around – even if you hear a noise behind you. You don’t look out of the window. You don’t lose focus. You really, deliberately concentrate on what the teacher is saying at all times. You look at the board. You listen. You read. You practise the work set in silence. You deliberately try to understand and to memorise the information and the processes you have been taught.
If someone tries to distract you, raise your hand and tell the teacher.

That’s an extract from the Yarmouth school website almost identical to ours. The teachers call S.L.A.T, the T is for track. The rest you can google if interested.

The Yarmouth school does sound similar and is founded by the same person as the micheala school so I’m beginning to see the pattern. There’s things on the Yarmouth website that make it sound a bit stricter than mine though. But generally I think they are all based on the same philosophy.

S.l.a.n.t

Agree with other pp. This school is not a good fit for your dc, therefore you need to move him to a school environment that better fits his needs. That said, this school sounds like it would've been perfect for dd1. I made the mistake of going for pastoral care over discipline, and it turned out to be an absolute nightmare - general disruption in every lesson, chair throwing, spats between teachers and pupils, and a general failure to control poor behaviour at every level. Pastoral care, my arse - it was quite literally a free-for-all. My dd would've thrived in the disciplined environment you describe.

Move him to another school. The fact that it's outstanding doesn't mean a thing if he's stressed and under pressure. NO kid should be in isolation all day unless they do something really bad like hit another kid etc

I'm genuinely horrified that these schools exist. How terribly victorian, teachers will impart knowledge into the empty vessel. Fill 'em up, ship 'em out and start again.

I work in asn so these schools exclude my kids from the get go, however they are not healthy. They are not showing children how to deal with and cope with emotions. They are making them follow a regimented routine, that's the easy part but it so often falls apart when they no longer have that strict regime to support them.

I learn from my kids daily, we have, most days, mutal respect. I have worked in both primary and secondary and yes this is possible, I am not a god who has all the answers and knowledge we work together to find new things.

The idea of being pht in isolation for a day or more😲😠 if you did that to an adult it would not be acceptable, so unless there is a really good reason how are they getting away with that with kids? Are results all we care about now? What about integrity, compassion, creativity, humanity, social interaction, individualty and warmth?

I can be strict, I work with many distressed behaviours thay have a reason behind then and hiding them in a punishment based routine will only make them worse in the future. At a minimum treat children as you would want and expect to be treated. Op please remove your child x

As soon as someone uses the words ‘distressed behaviours’ I know they know what they’re talking about. I wish there was a better understanding of this in the wider mainstream U.K. system (it is beginning to be understood in the special schools adult services).

Is there any evidence a bootcamp school protects against kids joining gangs? It sounds the sort of environment that could push some vulnerable children towards gang culture (if you’re feeling worthless and an outsider for hours each day).

Ds3’s school is in a socially difficult & economically deprived area (listed as one of the most deprived in Europe). The school is a funny mix of kids from the immediate area and then kids with hippy parents who send their children from much further away. Their approach to the issues outside their front door is very different though - their aim is to give every child a goal, so to work with the children so they understand what they want to do after school and to ensure they know what they need to do it. They team up with a lot of local businesses - huge variety of sectors - and do a lot of joint work with them. They also do a lot with the local community, engaging in social projects. On Christmas Day the kitchen staff opened the school to the homeless and provided Christmas dinner. The whole School provided clothing etc and volunteers. They have carefully made links with organisations promoting equality & working with vulnerable people. It’s a very different way of doing things.

Going to look up slant now.