Aibu or is school, regarding discipline?

[Imustbemad00]

Would like any information anyone can give me regarding secondary schools and discipline procedures.
My child’s secondary school is strict. I knew it was strict, partly why I chose it. However, in reality, it is causing so many problems. My child has changed so much since starting there, unhappy, suffering with mental health and has developed a bad attitude problem and I will admit is being quite naughty at school and at home. Im worried.

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

The sanctions for bad behaviour are extreme. My child has spent a lot of time in isolation, which means out of lessons. Not learning. Not talking to another person all day. Not great for a child already struggling with mental health.

The school also give them double detentions, meaning my child is was in school for 9 hours and 45mins today without talking to another child or being in any lessons, arriving home at 6.30pm.

I try to work with them as I know my child’s behaviour is the cause of punishments, but honestly feel they are way over the top and their approach is making things worse. They say that those are their policies and that is that.

I’m thinking of moving schools but worry my child’s behaviour could worsen if boundriers were relaxed. But equally they could flourish if not so unhappy and stressed.

So Aibu to think the schools policies are over the top? Is it normal?

I’m fully aware my child’s behaviour is the root of the problem. The school call me and tell me what they are in isolation for, no notnfor looking out of a window, as that only warrants a demerit but usually for something like answering back. Which I know is wrong but if the school wasn’t on my child’s case for ridiculous things all the time it probably wouldn’t happen.

I do fully agree though that my child’s behaviour at school is unacceptable and will not be tolerated in a strict school. My issue is the way they punish. Isolation for 10 hours, meaning my child is missing learning and falling behind and they know my child is suffering with mental health so being stuck in a room all day with no interaction is not helpful. If they talk, turn around, or do anything ‘wrong’ they have to repeat isolation the next day.

Of course sometimes my child is completely down playing what has happened to get them in trouble, but equally I’ve heard from the teachers and often am left thinking “really, is that all??”

It is not a private school. It’s an academy.

Awful - I couldn't treat children like that. Move him.

Many Victorian schools were deliberately built with high windows to stop children looking out, a lot of those schools are still in use, many of them well regarded grammar/primary schools. Just saying.

Is every other child in the school in detention all the time or just your child OP? If every other child is also finding things tough then you have a point, but if other children ARE coping with the rules then clearly it is not the place for YOUR child.

Was your child having issues with discipline at a previous school? Is that why you deliberately chose a stricter than average school? I am sorry your child is having mh issues but there is clearly more going on than not being allowed to look out of the window.

Lots of children in detention and isolation. Obviously I don’t know the statistics but it’s defin not just my child.
No problem in previous school apart from low level chatting, but had never answered back or been rude to a teacher.
Mostly that’s what my child is in isolation and detention for talking, silly behaviour or being rude. Rudeness is not acceptable but to be honest I’m struggling not to be rude to them at this point so I half understand.

Only read OP. Not the Michaela School is it?

Move your child - it’s clearly not suiting him.

Can I ask why you've sent your child to a school where they're treated in a way you'd never accept from an employer?

In answer to the above, because I didn’t know. There was nothing in the prospectus about isolation. There’s one sentence about it in the policy. We was not shown that room during viewings. I thought strict was good. I had no idea hownover the top it was, or how much my child would struggle to stick to the rules.

Spokento my child about moving schools but my child doesn’t want to as has had the fear put into them by a teacher who’s told them they will end up going to a rubbish school and end up a teenage parent with no job prospects. Only found this out this morning.

The windows thing? Ofsted used that in my sons school inspection to demonstrate that pupils were not fully engaged with the teachers.

Op - move your child. I like a strict school but thats beyond ridiculous

low level chatting, talking, silly behaviour,rudeness

These are very disruptive behaviours. What would you expect the teachers to do when a child is disrupting lessons and stopping other children from learning by deliberately choosing to behave like this ? If a child does not have the self discipline to regulate its own behaviour then either you have chaos in the classroom or the discipline is imposed.

No. A school like that nearly broke my DS and me. They proudly said, "discipline first, pastoral support second", er no I think that's the wrong way round for a lot of kids. Fear and anxiety worsens behaviour., it doesn't improve it IMO.

Unfortunately it's a thing for schools now so good luck finding another one.

It sounds hideous. No workplace would expect employees to walk in single file not communicating or punish them for looking out of a window so I don't see how it benefits children to be expected to behave like that.

Move him.

We chose a strict school but they are sensible and caring with it. The result is a very calm environment which is great for studying and teaching.

Your ds' school justsounds like a reformatory.

OP - am about to eat. I work with severe challenging behaviour and the approach you’ve described is the total opposite to something I’d recommend. It sounds as if the school is breaking him? Any chance of starting somewhere new in September

Sorry the about to eat was meant to say so will come back properly later

I think I would have mental health issues if I had to follow a those rules, they are dehumanising. Some parts remind me of early prison policy!

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

Is your child in a detention centre where they're being forced to provide an education?

Because if he's not, I would get him out of there yesterday!

Adults aren't expected to act in such a manner ... why oh why do some people think that children should?!?!

It's abusive imo.

Low level chatting could be something like ‘can I borrow a ruler’ for example. I hardly think thenodd sentence here and there is stopping others learning

Silly behaviour is obviously open to interpretation but generally it’s nothing you wouldn’t expect from 12 year olds. Bear in mind this is such a strict school so any little thing is made to sound really bad because of the zero tolerance approach.

Rudeness is unacceptable though, I agree. But this is a new problem and I feel is a result of how the school have handled things. Children become angry, full of pent up energy and frustration.

In answer to what would I expect the teachers to do? Make sure the punishment fits the crime. Detentions, withdrawal of privileges, maybe break times. Not sticking them in a white room for 10 hours repeatedly and ordering me to go to the school at inconvenient times at short notice over stuff that isn’t that bad in the grand scheme of things. Also take into consideration they are affecting my child’s mental health. A teacher once said (in regards to mental health) “worry less about yourself and more about your school work” I’m not sure if that’s been taken out of context but still...

Whether the school are being unreasonable in their rules is a moot point on this particular occasion (though they do seem excessively strict if they really are as you have described).

The reason it is moot is that you believe your child's mental health is being damaged by this environment. If you believe their problems are directly as a result of school policies (rather than child acting out due to mental health issues- not solely caused by school but perhaps school contributing; or perhaps there are behavioural problems rather than mental health problems), then you need act to help your child.

Therefore, whether the school is unreasonable in their expectations/standards/rules and punishments for infringements, is largely irrelevant- it is clearly not the right one for your child if you believe they are damaging your child, you need to do something about it.

This school is doing a similar thing to those that screen by academic ability but it is screening by behavioural ability. It only wants children who are able to behave to the standards it sets.

The school has no interest in helping your son develop the skills he lacks in areas such as of problem solving delaying gratification, flexible thinking, (Most behaviour problems are due to children lacking skills in these sorts of areas for most school children.

If your child was very poor at mathematics, would you try to send him to a school where they set difficult maths entry tests?

Find a school that works for your son. He needs help to develop behaviour skills that he currently lacks. Some schools do this very well but they need to be quite skilled at this sort of teaching. Many schools in areas where children are more likely to have these problems deal with this well but not all. None of the schools which do this well will be rated outstanding by ofsted. Exclude those from consideration.

My son's school is rated good , in a city with a number of children with all sorts of difficulties. DS(ASD/ADHD) has thrived there. I had worried that he would not deal well with a busy mainstream school and no the behaviour in the school is not perfect but it is pretty good . DS behaves much much better than he did (though still some blood) because he is happy there.

When you visit new schools , ask carefully about SEN provision and how they deal with bad behaviour or SEN. It tells you a lot about the sort of school they are. How many children do they exclude, etc.

DSs school also has very good results which are way above averagel, just not as good as the 'outstanding' one up the road. That is fine by us

My main point of this post was to see if this was normal as the headteacher has led me to believe that all schools use isolation and the ones that don’t have kids running round doing what they like. Maybe they do all have isolation, but I’m guessing in most schools it’s only used as a last resort for really bad behaviour. For example violence, smoking, aggression ect. Isolation is basically an internal exclusion that stays on their record.

Still some problems - not blood!! (Not sure where that came from)

My child was properly beginning to suffer with mental health long before starting this school but it was under the radar and behaviour was ok. This school has brought it all to the surface because of the stress and the behaviour is basically a result of mental health (SH). So not the schools fault, but not helped by the school. I feel their pastoral care is rubbish. I don’t think they make it a priority. So op is correct l, basically a moot point now as it has become a viscous circle.

Probably not properly