Aibu or is school, regarding discipline?

[Imustbemad00]

Would like any information anyone can give me regarding secondary schools and discipline procedures.
My child’s secondary school is strict. I knew it was strict, partly why I chose it. However, in reality, it is causing so many problems. My child has changed so much since starting there, unhappy, suffering with mental health and has developed a bad attitude problem and I will admit is being quite naughty at school and at home. Im worried.

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

The sanctions for bad behaviour are extreme. My child has spent a lot of time in isolation, which means out of lessons. Not learning. Not talking to another person all day. Not great for a child already struggling with mental health.

The school also give them double detentions, meaning my child is was in school for 9 hours and 45mins today without talking to another child or being in any lessons, arriving home at 6.30pm.

I try to work with them as I know my child’s behaviour is the cause of punishments, but honestly feel they are way over the top and their approach is making things worse. They say that those are their policies and that is that.

I’m thinking of moving schools but worry my child’s behaviour could worsen if boundriers were relaxed. But equally they could flourish if not so unhappy and stressed.

So Aibu to think the schools policies are over the top? Is it normal?

toomuch I wouldn’t doubt what you say except for your point tw bullying. Always very wary of any school which claims there is no bullying. I appreciate it’s you saying it and not the school’s claim but bullying sadly exists in every school.

Your sons behaviour is getting worse

Which shows the punishments aren't working are they?

He's not suited to this school - mice him.

My DS is Dyslexic and he wouldn't cope in that environment.

Is it a son? Not that it matters of course but I couldn’t see it was said by the OP that it was her son. It’s just been assumed. As I say it’s not important but is interesting.

@toomuchhappyland doesn't sound inspiring, sounds like a prison. I've never heard of Michaela, don't think I want to.

Grilledaubergines I’ve been to Michaela and ive talked to the children - with no teacher present, and just random kids, not ones set up for me to meet. I’ve wandered round the school at breaks and lunchtimes with no official escort. I’m a teacher with 15 years’ experience and I’ve never seen anything like it. At my school - which is a good school, I hasten to add - there’s scuffles on the yard at playtime, kids will swear, kids will drop litter. Visitors would see this, if they looked. I looked at Michaela. There was nothing. The children play table tennis or basketball, they do clubs, they read, they sit and have conversations. Their unstructured time is calm and purposeful in a way I have genuinely never seen in other schools. They were adamant that there was no bullying and if there was it would not be tolerated, and I believed them.

This is a school where the whole school - staff included - memorise poems and all recite one in unison before lunch. Where lunch involves a set topic of conversation. Where the first question a child asked me was what university I went to and what I thought about Brexit (and these are deprived kids in a school in Wembley). I repeat - it’s not like other schools. It’s really not.

They are awful procedures. They are designed to control rather than teach self-control. They are also designed to weed out children who can not cope with such systems - often children witn SEN or from disadvantaged backgrounds.
Children will never be expected to behave like this anywhere else in their lfe. It is ridiculous and inhumane.
YABU in sending your child to the school. It is in no child's interest to attend such an institution.

Fair enough - you’ve experienced the environment.

It does sound though that the children are robotic and not developing their personalities. Do they behave that way because there is a fear culture?

Sorry, not meaning to be negative but it just sounds so extreme. Alongside learning has to come the development of good social skills, character etc.

OP has buggered off. I sense a wind up.

I went to a strict school but nothing like this. And definitely no isolation. I'd take my child out on that point alone as I don't agree with it. You're not going to make the school change and your child's mental health is important. This doesn't sound likethe school for them.

No. They have some of the warmest relationships with their teachers. The rules are rigid and strict. But that means everyone knows where they stand, and actually, that then lets relationships blossom. I saw them laughing and joking with their teachers. Remember how at school you loved the teachers who were really strict but scrupulously fair with it? Every teacher is like that at Michaela. They have their script and they follow it. It’s not for everyone but if you buy into it it can be amazing.

It’s not a micheala school, not heard of that. It’s an academy and he’s in the u.k

I chose it because it seemed like the best school around. Outstanding in all areas. The head teacher sounded inspiring. It is very career focused. I thought he strictness would mean a safe and calm learning environment, which it kind of is. But I didn’t know how strict it was. Didn’t know about the isolation room or how often they use it, funnily enough they don’t show you that on the open day.

I also didn’t know how my child would take to it. I thought it would do them the world of good as they had a tendency to mess about and be a bit chatty in class. Clearly it hasn’t. I now have an angry child with MH issues. Although that’s not all down to school.

I’m worried I think the grass is greener, and moving schoolsnwpuld be a big mistake. That’s what the headteacher is telling me. Also there are not many other good schools around and, they are either rated inadequate, or in rough areas I wouldn’t want my child travelling to, or schools we have no hope of getting a place at.

I wish I had a crystal ball. But your answers have helped confirm I’m not being over dramatic.

Some schools are more academic others are more pasturial

They aren't all the same

What does your child think?

What options are they suggesting for him other than isolation?

I’m not going to google Micheala as I’m intrigued and wondering if the school have adopted some of their philosophies.

Would also add some children are obviously doing really well there, I hoped mine would be one of them ☹️ But they are spending so much time in isolation, not actually being taught that it’s becoming ridiculous.

I refused to teach in a school like this. I would move my child.

Op, when I went to school, isolation rooms weren’t about. Most, if not all, schools have them now.

In your position I would move your child. Not all schools fit all children.

Ok, but the "outstanding" school has made him ill, so it's not actually outstanding, is it? There's more to a school than its Ofsted rating.

If it is Michaela- having juts read up, will be interesting to see how it stacks up in 2019 when the first kids take exams. I have no issue if the kids are happy- and someone on here has said at that school they are. But if he strong g disciplinary approach is t working for your son, he needs to be somewhere else. The school you have him at currently seems to be a very bad fit.

toomuchhappyland Michaela hasn't existed long enough to have phenomenal results yet has it? They haven't had a set of GCSE kids through.

It sounds horrendous. Why would you subject your child to that? Move him ASAP.

So I just googled micheala and itnsound very similar in a lot of ways, different curriculum and slightly different vision, but the strictness and a lot of the ideas are the same. I’m wondering if this is a new ‘thing’. My child’s school has been open 5 years. They just say their first year of GCSEs so I’m also interested to see those results. I have a feeling they’ll be very good.

I have asked my child but they are unsure. They know they do not like it there at the moment, and I think they are angry with them self for not being able to just behave appropriately because in an ideal world I think they would like to stay there with their friends and be happy. But as someone mentioned above I think some children there are destined to fail with such high expectations for behaviour.

My child has been far from an angel lately though and it has now got to the point where they have shouted at teachers when angry. This then affects MH issues because my child becomes frustrated and angry at the self and is depressed and has low self esteem amongst other things.

Sorry I’m referring to my child as child/they/their. Scared ofnouting myself with too much info andndont knownhownto name change.

Discipline works when kids respect it. Arbitrary discipline stops working - if a child is getting punished for things they can't control or prevent, they will give up trying to stay within the code. That sounds rather like what could be happening here - so if sticking to all the rules isn't going to be possible, move your child pronto. Good luck!

Is it the Michaela School? If so, it’s what you signed up to.

They are not teaching discipline, they are teaching punishment. Not the same thing at all.
Self discipline is taught through example and discussion of the importance of considering options and their consequence when making choices.
Teaching kids to punish by punishing them for the slightest lapse often results in children acting out the way your child is because it violates children's sense of fairness.
You remember that? When fairness was how we judged and measured everything? That was the first step to learning self discipline.