Is this sexist

[deniselouise]

Or aibu to think this is actually just good manners and quite sweet.
So im in the gym by the front desk waiting for a friend to come out of the changing room.
At the front desk theres also some chairs for people to sit.
So theres about 5 men sitting in them and talking. One of them really loudly,repeatedly swearing using the f word. Literally after every word lol.
Then a guy walks by hears,points at me and says hey man respect. Potty mouth then apologizes. Tbf to potty mouth he probably didnt notice me but aibu to think the guy that told him off for swearing infront of me had good manners?

It may have happen decades ago, but it certainly doesn't happen now.

If it's any consolation, a lot of women who would have got onto the lifeboats without their husbands would have been royally fucked when they ended up as widows, given that men prevented women from working and owning their own property. So yeah they got on the boats, but they didn't have any rights as human beings so on the whole they weren't actually that fortunate.

Forthwith I will no longer allow my dh to carry a heavy suit case for me.

Unless the argument is that two men arriving simultaneously at this mythical door would, unable to use gender as a basis to determine who opened it, be stuck there for hours until a woman arrived on one side and the man on the other could finally use "being a gentleman" to break the deadlock. Because I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen.

Thank you for that mental image, I do love the thought of that

Basically I'll exchange the chance to get on a lifeboat first (in the very unlikely scenario that that becomes an issue) for human rights like the opportunity to get an education and have a career thanks very much.

sexist
ˈsɛksɪst/Submit
adjective
1.
relating to or characterized by prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

Doesn’t really fit does it?

'Forthwith I will no longer allow my dh to carry a heavy suit case for me.'

That's great lethaldrizzle - building your body strength is very good for you. Well done.

I'm getting on the life boat to continue my career

Yes it was sexist.
I am a woman, I open / hold open doors for men & women, and I expect the same back.
I'm middle aged and always done this and it's all pretty normal.
I have never been offered a seat from a man (apart from within groups of friends - wedding etc - and if I'm wearing uncomfortable shoes I accept!) I have never been pregnant or on crutches etc, so would never accept a seat either.

Anyway, OP, we have this at work all the time.

My female colleague and I are the only women in our male-dominated team and our team-mates swear like troopers around us. We like it because it means we're included and they don't see us as precious snowflakes.

But every now and again we have to go to this particular department which is very old-skool blue collar. When we enter the staff room it goes hush and the men apologize and start telling each other off for swearing in the presence of a lady.

Drives us crazy. I'm not some Victorian pearl-clutching lady. Anyone who thinks women don't swear hasn't been on Mumsnet!

Benevolent sexism is sometimes harder to identify because it's dressed up as a compliment. But it still excludes you from being one of the team.

So YANBU. I mean it's no biggie on a scale of mildly-annoying to life-threatening, but still YANBU.

In what way doesn't it fit Didimus? The man intervened based on the stereotype that women need protecting from swearing.

Forthwith I will no longer allow my dh to carry a heavy suit case for me.

Don't be ludicrous.

My DH carries heavy stuff for me all the time because he's stronger than me! It's a gentlemanly action because he's helping me out with something I'm poorly equipped to do.

If I was a weightlifter I daresay he wouldn't do it, he'd just help me out with getting into bottles

Doesn’t really fit does it?

It doesn't?

I'd say his actions are based on the stereotypes that 1) women are more sensitive to swearing and 2) women are too timid to say something if something is making them uncomfortable.

He then (very kindly) decided to speak up on OP's behalf. It doesn't have to be malevolent to be sexist.

It wasn't necessarily sexist because he could have potentially done exactly the same thing if a lone man had been sitting there and the group of five other men were swearing a lot.

Nobody can know so nobody should judge. He sounds like a decent guy.
Maybe the OP looked a bit annoyed or he misinterpreted her expression as annoyed, and that's what pushed him to say something. Maybe the swearer was his baby brother who he constantly tells not to swear so much in front of strangers in public.

There are too many unknowns.

Even something that was socially acceptable say 30 years ago and considered a nice thing to do...now all of a sudden is bad as well.

If it's a 'nice thing to do', why aren't you doing it for everyone?

If you are doing it for everyone, then there isn't a problem.

We can't do anything right even when we try to?

Hold a door open for a man occasionally. There, that didn't take a huge amount of effort in doing things right, did it?

But I am forgetting that, apparently, the only possible reason for thinking that men should sometimes hold doors for other men is that the person who thinks that hates all men. It's not the most efficient approach to hating all men I've ever come across "Bwahahahaha, let the door swing back and hit them in their stupid male faces!" would probably be more effective but maybe it's an unusually subtle plan. Maybe if a man holds a door open for another man his penis will fall off, or something.

There are too many unknowns.

Whilst it's true that in this case there are too many unknowns the fact that it happens quite a lot to women suggests it's a thing.

I asked a group of young men to mind their language in a restaurant and referred to my elderly mum to make the point (I'm middle-aged). They apologised. Think it's harder to call this sort of thing out on ones own behalf - particularly if you are a bloke. He did the right thing and his reprimand was doubtless more effective than if he'd simply asked the bloke to stop swearing without acknowledging you. So polite and effective rather than sexist I reckon.

I'm a male...Thank gods you are here. I'd never know what to consider sexist without a man to tell me what I'm thinking and experiencing.

I was going to moan that being male might be a relevant point, and is always jumped on; then I read Dazza's actual post and realised caffine's response is perfect.

I suppose it does fit with a stereotype I guess. I just always associate sexism with something negative which I don’t think this is.

I actually think taking offence at this for the sake of it devalues the fight against malicious sexism that women face in the world every day.

'I actually think taking offence at this for the sake of it devalues the fight against malicious sexism that women face in the world every day.'

It's not a matter of 'taking offence for the sake of it' - the OP asked if it was sexist, and it is.

Why do you think it devalues the fight against malicious sexism?

Not sexist. Common courtesy. You don'y use would language in public, even if it is single-sex public.

I actually think taking offence at this for the sake of it devalues the fight against malicious sexism that women face in the world every day.

I wouldn't get hugely offended or angry at this, but these beliefs could mean the man has more of a damaging impact later on, especially in a work force. A poster was talking about being viewed as "different" in terms of what colleagues could say in front of her impacted her work. A belief that women are naturally more timid could lead to him overlooking women for leadership roles, or intervening too much with a woman's work because he thinks she might be incapable. In that case they would have an actual pernicious effect on someone's life.

I don't think that in situations like this you should go in all guns blazing, because you look like a loon and it is well intentioned; but a small comment that might make him reconsider the stereotypes that led to his behaviour is important, I think. Stereotypes can't be benign even if they present themselves as such in some situations.

As a kind of unrelated point, a man's reaction to being told (politely) that something is somewhat sexist will tell you all you need to know about the man.

It is sexist but it's also polite and well mannered to ask someone to stop swearing.

It's all three, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

The question wasn't "should I take offence at this?" but rather "is this sexist?"

I think only one person out of the whole "Yes, it's at least potentially sexist" camp has taken an "...and so you should be offended by it" line.

Because I think that by picking a battle such as this one actually might lend you to the ‘OMG look at her harping on how rediculous’ stereotype quite wrongly given to feminism. Don’t give the misogynists what they want. It’s also pales in comparison to seriousness of other examples of casual and not at all casual sexism. I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well today so forgive me (the old noodle isn’t functioning too well it appears!) and I’m not using ‘you’ as in you personally here. Plus, as PP said, there are too many unknown scenarios here to call it out as overt sexism.

didimus
I actually think taking offence at this for the sake of it devalues the fight against malicious sexism that women face in the world every day.
exactly
choose your battles ladies - this kind of action is nothing to do with serious sexist behaviour (or how many men are guilty of rape in a year)

It actually does relate to serious sexism because it feeds the idea that women are weaker and can be controlled/abused