Is this sexist

[deniselouise]

Or aibu to think this is actually just good manners and quite sweet.
So im in the gym by the front desk waiting for a friend to come out of the changing room.
At the front desk theres also some chairs for people to sit.
So theres about 5 men sitting in them and talking. One of them really loudly,repeatedly swearing using the f word. Literally after every word lol.
Then a guy walks by hears,points at me and says hey man respect. Potty mouth then apologizes. Tbf to potty mouth he probably didnt notice me but aibu to think the guy that told him off for swearing infront of me had good manners?

Lethaldrizzle - good old fashioned manners. I really couldn't get angry and thinking sexist pig for someone saying ladies first.
It's nice.

I'm a male...

Thank gods you are here. I'd never know what to consider sexist without a man to tell me what I'm thinking and experiencing.

To be honest, it wasn't sexist as he didn't say you were female/girl/woman, but a worker at the site should not be exposed to potty mouth. I'm not at work to hear swear words, I'm at work to, you know, do my job without a load of swearing.

What if you were on the phone to a client, or a supplier, or another customer. Would they have wanted to hear that language? No, it's about the image of the company as much as anything.

2 people a man and a woman coming towards a door at the same time but from opposite sides if the door. They reach it at the same time. Who should ooen it then?

The one who needs to pull on the door to open it. Because if the other one pushes it open they risk pushing it into the other person, so it's better for the one doing the pulling to be in control.

It's opens both ways

Sexism is the stuff that leaves women at the bottom of the pile, that takes our rights and abuses us

So saying pink is for girls and blue is for boys, is not sexist? Saying that women only have sex because they want love, is not sexist? Saying that women are more emotional, is not sexist? Saying that men can’t multitask is not sexist?

Something doesn’t have to be abussive to be considered sexist.

Dazza you don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying at all. I'll explain it again.

Drearydeardre said that women discussing this issue on mumsnet makes them look foolish - as though that's something we should be really worried about. My point was that discussing things on mumsnet isn't really anything to be worried about, given that men rape thousands of women a year and men don't seem to be very worried about how that looks to anybody - why should women care about how they 'look' when men don't give a shit?

'2 people a man and a woman coming towards a door at the same time but from opposite sides if the door. They reach it at the same time. Who should ooen it then? The man steps aside whilst holding it open. Ladies first - he says. Is he a sexist pig?!'

No one said anything about being a 'sexist pig' - that's an unnecessary insult. What I and others were saying was that treating people differently according to their sex is the definition of sexism. So if a man would open the door for a woman but not for a man then that is sexist. Opening the door and making a silly comment about 'ladies' isn't necessary but it's not sexist per se.

I don't know why people try to make out this is so complicated, it really isn't.

Perhaps a race example is easier to understand? So if for example, I would open the door for a white person but not a black person then I'm racist because I'm treating people differently according to the colour of their skin. That's pretty clear isn't it?

Benevolent sexism is the sort of thing that led to women's being cut off from areas of employment for generations. Because if women are more delicate, more sensitive, need to be treated with kid gloves, then it stands to reason that they can't do... [insert thing here]. Not because anyone was being sexist, you understand, it just wouldn't be right to put her in that environment...

If you want to be a gentleman, great. Good decision. Be a gentleman to everyone. Then the world's a better place.

Bloody hell, I said I'm a male to maybe give some of you an insight in to what some males are thinking.

I also said that I realise everyone has their own points of view.

To be honest you just seem like a social justice warrior type person.

Do you hate men? Is that what this is about?

We can't do anything right even when we try to?

Even something that was socially acceptable say 30 years ago and considered a nice thing to do...now all of a sudden is bad as well.

Hmm... it's like a man stopping to open the door for you, or letting you get on the train first, or offering you a seat, or being called sweetheart or love or darling.
It is sexist, but it's the 'good' sort... I suppose.

It can be nice in the moment if done right, it's horrible if done wrong. But the undertone is that women and men are different and should be treated differently.

My little ancient old mother, shrinking an inch with every year she aged, always refused men opening doors for her,
'Age before beauty' she would declare.
By the time she was 87 she was helping a lot of younger men through doors.
She loved to nonplus men and chuckled every time.

It was sexist OP, well-intentioned but sexist.

So what your saying is if a man held the door open for a women then that sexist as well, because maybe he's implying that she's too weak in strength to open the door herself!?!

I'd consider it politeness to have the door held open for me. On the other hand, I once knew a guy who would only open doors for women. As you can expect, he was a sexist twat.

Opening a door for me is manners and I like it when my DH is gentlemanly, opens the door, pulls out the chair etc. But when a man does it to women as a whole, not men, it's usually a sign that he'll be a dick in all other areas and have greasy hair

Like I said the fact that he gestured to a woman implies he has no problem with swearing in itself, just when it is in front of women (and hopefully children). It is sexist, but it's the sort of sexism I find it difficult to get worked up over because it comes from a well meaning place. If you shouted at the man you'd look absolutely ridiculous and it would be unkind after he did something nice and polite, even if it did perhaps come from the idea that delicate womanly ears will burn at the sounds of swearing.

So let's forget women and children first on lifeboats then

Dazza suggesting a woman must hate men, just because she disagrees with you, is not very gentlemanly. Try listening and understanding, rather than trying to “win”.

Do you hate men? Is that what this is about?

Bingo, I think we have the full house of cliches.

I actually remember 30 years ago, it was used as an excuse to shut women out then, its still used in the same way now although the phrasing may be different.

But obviously as a woman I can't possibly have any real incite as to how casual and even well meant sexism affected me. You, having been a toddler at that time, having no insight into my experience now, obviously know far better.

It's polite & good manners, he obviously had a good mother.

So let's forget women and children first on lifeboats then

Has never been a legal requirement anyway.

'So let's forget women and children first on lifeboats then'

Oh my god! That's priceless! I can't believe you actually said that.

So let's forget women and children first on lifeboats then

While I might be grateful for that if - Heaven forbid - I'm in such a situation, my moral compass means that I'd absolutely not board at the same time as the children. All children would be on a boat before I stepped onto one if there was a limited number.

The fairness that comes from me being detached, and not actually in, that situation, says I should board when the adult men do. There's no difference that requires me to go on first.

So let's forget women and children first on lifeboats then
It really didn't happen as often as people like to make out.

"insight" not "incite "

The women and children first thing is a bit of a myth anyway, it was only on the titanic because the captins orders were misunderstood.

He was one step, but a crucial step away from being a feminist ally. He should have called our sexist and mysoginist language because it was sexist and misogynist whether there was "a lady present" or not^. As it was, it was sexist-but polite.

As Spaghettijumper says...

"2 men, a black man and a white man, coming towards a door at the same time but from opposite sides of the door. They reach it at the same time. Who should open it then? The white man steps aside whilst holding it open. 'Black people first,' he says."

or

"2 men, a black man and a white man, coming towards a door at the same time but from opposite sides of the door. They reach it at the same time. Who should open it then? The black man steps aside whilst holding it open. 'White people first,' he says."

Are either of them pigs? Who knows. Is it objectively racist to decide who opens a door for whom on the basis of race and comment on it? You bet your sweet bippy it is.

On the rare occasions that two adults arrive at a see-through door that opens both ways at the exact same microsecond, I imagine they'll be able to get the door open somehow. Unless the argument is that two men arriving simultaneously at this mythical door would, unable to use gender as a basis to determine who opened it, be stuck there for hours until a woman arrived on one side and the man on the other could finally use "being a gentleman" to break the deadlock. Because I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen.

Interesting one. We don’t know what the passer by’s actions might have been had you been a man, nor how the swearing man would have reacted.

When out alone or with DC I have always chosen not to intervene when people on public transport loudly and repeatedly swear, largely through fear of the reaction of those people.