To stick my nose in with harassed mum hitting toddler

[RosyPrimroseface]

In the road the other day my DS was on my shoulders and he suddenly said "Why that mummy hitting girl?" I turned and saw a woman across the road slapping a girl (aged about 3).

It wasn't very hard but the girl obvs was crying a lot. And as DS noticed first, she had evidently hit her more than once, as i saw one and he the other.

I called across "Did you just hit her?!" in a voice which was definitely judgemental. And posh and annoying i expect. She said "I gave her hand a tap!"

I said "That's not good. It's not ideal."

Now. I was twatty and irritating. I didn't make life easier for the girl; as her mum then was even grumpier. Nor the mum, who was angry and gave me a bit of abuse, naturally. I don't think I should have commented.

But - I don't think it's ever ok to hit children, and maybe if there's more reaction from bystanders it will become generally less acceptable??

Or am i just a busybody? Interested to see balance of views.

It wasn't very hard

So the child was not at risk.

You were being a busybody and seeking to impose your own parenting choices on someone else.

I think frequent screaming at kids does more damage than a measured controlled tap. I also think bribery and not following through are both hugely damaging too. Surely we all try and avoid all of it but will come unstuck at times as we're human and parenting in trying times. I've only tapped one of my dc once to illustrate how her pinching her brothers hurt. I'm less ashamed of that than times I've hollered when at the end of my tether. I don't do it often but actually I think it's good my dc know I'm human.

A "tap" is never in anger, or as warning, or as punishment - that is a smack

A "tap" is say a light touch on the shoulder, only to attract the person's attention,
e.g. when a friend / colleague is too deeply engrossed to realise they are needed urgently for something
(especially me, as I've a hearing disability and I hate waving near my eyes)

If you smack, then own it
Don't use euphemisms

I've only tapped one of my dc once to illustrate how her pinching her brothers hurt. I'm less ashamed of that than times I've hollered when at the end of my tether. I don't do it often but actually I think it's good my dc know I'm human.

I think smacking your child out of anger/because you lost control is much worse than what you did. I'm not sure about what you did, I wouldn't do it, but you did it purposefully to try and induce empathy. You didn't lose your temper so smack your child as a mean of out letting frustration. Teaching your child that when you lose your temper you hit will make them more afraid of their anger than they need to be for one thing, and the other is that they will probably follow suit.

I also find it interesting that most parents who have hit their children because they lost control have never done so to an adult - e.g. someone who will hit them back. It's also interesting that it usually stops by the time they get to teens. I knew one woman who was absolutely fuming the night she hit her teenager and the girl walloped her right back - but she never hit her again. I didn't know what she expected. She was the one who taught her violence was okay when she was angry, why would she be so shocked that the lesson was learnt?

But most parents completely stop before it becomes a fair fight and their children become a similar size. They hit only when it has little consequences for themselves - which is exactly why they would never beat their child, only smack. Parents who smack their children, despite being completely "out of control" (not great anyway) hardly ever go as far as to get themselves prosecuted. I don't think it's anywhere near as "out of control" as people pretend it is. Smacking young children is just the area where you won't get into any trouble yourself, excluding a "busybody" like OP getting involved, which will touch your temper, perhaps, but not actually harm you. It all seems far too calculated to be done completely out of senseless rage.

I agree that repeated/frequent screaming and shouting can be very damaging, probably equally so to repeated/frequent smacking or hitting. However, most parents are likely to lose their temper rarely and therefore a rare shout or scream is less awful than a rare hitting (as the shout or scream is less of an abuse of power).

It is weird - I grew up being smacked/hit at least the average amount for the 80s I would say, and DF in particular would lose it and whack with any implement he could get his hands on. While I never thought I’d do that as a parent, until I had a child I thought I might ‘slap’ them in a measured way (?!) as a warning or serious rebuke. Once I’d had a child I never felt that would be okay to me. I am certainly no saint and I have sometimes lost it and shouted or said things I regret. But I’m glad that in a few generations hitting has gone from being normal to being mostly unacceptable.

I agree with @NannyOgg and @MrsPuddlefluck
A smack never did generations of children any harm and strangely you don't see crowds of 60/70/80 year olds terrorising people do you? No its all the kids of the arsehole contingent who won't dare smack their little darling in case they upsetty wetty them? Who then grow up to hulking great 12 year olds threatening law abiding citizens?

Don't use the word "slapped" when what you really mean is that she smacked (or "tapped") the back of the child's hand twice.

A smack never did generations of children any harm and strangely you don't see crowds of 60/70/80 year olds terrorising people do you? No its all the kids of the arsehole contingent who won't dare smack their little darling in case they upsetty wetty them? Who then grow up to hulking great 12 year olds threatening law abiding citizens?

I couldn't help but laugh at "hulking great 12 year olds."

Any method of discipline is probably going to "upset" a child. When you say "upset" you mean "psychologically damage" and yes, like any good parent, I don't want to do that.

Hitting is not the most effective way to raise a child. In fact, it's probably the worst. It's just the easiest.

Well done OP. I would do/have done the same.

to the posters who have shared their experiences from childhood.

Oh - and just to add, @leighb23 , one of the most researched ways that smacking damages children is the link to crime. There is a huge positive correlation between being smacked/hit through childhood and criminals;

1. A lot of it is violent assault, interestingly.
2. It gives them a twisted code of ethics or none at all.
3. It's teaches them to evade punishment, not crime; and unfortunately, most people get to a stage where punishment catches up with you.

So the 12 year olds criminals you're describing are actually much more likely to be children that are hit, rather than the latter.

I assume that those of you smacking your children would also be fine with nursery and school doing it if they're naughty? Why not? it's not doing any harm is it?

A smack never did generations of children any harm and strangely you don't see crowds of 60/70/80 year olds terrorising people do you? No its all the kids of the arsehole contingent who won't dare smack their little darling in case they upsetty wetty them?

Oh yes, gods forbid we actually use words to solve problems instead of violence, what kind of example is that setting our kids? FFS.

I think you'll find it's the children of parents who do lash out, as it's the only way they know how to discipline, or those who have parents who couldn't care less what their children do, who turn out to have anti-social or behavioural issues.

Generally, children who have been brought up non-violently and respectful usually have good morals and behaviour. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule but research shows that non-violent parenting is beneficial whereas abuse isn't. Funny that.

*respectfully

Well done OP for being brave enough to speak up. Hitting kids is despicable. And I am infuriated by anyone who refers to it as a 'tap'. It's never a fucking tap.

Massively skirting around the fact that previous generations who were smacked aren't octogenarian delinquents!!

Big difference between a little tap on the hand as a last resort and a slap on the face. I wish my parents gave me a little tap on the hand rather then punches and slaps.

Have to agree Leigh

leigh no actually, that exact point has been addressed.

Massively skirting around the fact that previous generations who were smacked aren't octogenarian delinquents!!

An exact study was made to counter this argument. It studied over 50 years so took a series of generations into account, with well over 100,000 children. They discovered that it made children more aggressive, antisocial and actually less compliant. The children were also more likely to have alcohol or drug issues, as well as mental health problems, than counterparts who hadn't experienced violence as a punishment. The experiment defined smacking as "a hit or smack on the behind or extremities, not intended to cause lasting damage but to make the child experience shock or pain."

There have been countless other studies, usually on smaller scales, to investigate different negative effects. I think there have been studies proving correlation between smacking and extremism, crime (as I already mentioned), sexual assault and even laziness.

BTW, I don't think the generation currently being brought up is more violent than previous ones. I think the violence that they do condone tends to be much bigger stuff - the sort they see in movies or video games. They don't naturally respond with violence the same way older generations might. This isn't a study or anything, just IME.

@fleshmarketclose I think I love your daughter - that's amazing!

OP: I think you did the right thing. I agree that saying nothing allows the behaviour to be normalised. It's easy for posters to now say that you should have phrased things differently (personally, I think "not ideal" was quite a good way to phrase it), but you were just reacting in the moment. I know that I would have been likely to not say anything, and then regretted it later.

Areyoufree thank you, she has autism and so she has rigid thoughts and obviously we have a no hitting rule that applies to adults and children alike and to her mind it is a universal rule (and it should be IMO) What she said about needing five minutes to think about what she'd done and demanding an apology would have been what she would have heard if she had hit and so she saw no reason why the same reasoning shouldn't apply to an adult.

Probably going to be an unpopular opinion but I think YABU. It is legal to smack. You may not agree with it, but she was within her rights.

So many saints on here. The rest of us can only aspire to your perfection.

I presume you don't slap your DH or boss or friends when they frustrate you? Do you consider yourself to be a saint because of that?

fleshmarketclose Sounds similar to my daughter - she is also on the autistic spectrum. When she was 5, she asked why a cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet, to which my husband joked "Yes, you tell him!". Of course, she took that very literally and started shouting at this poor man "Why aren't you wearing a helmet? Why aren't you wearing a helmet?". Absolutely terrified him!

But it also sounds like your daughter has a natural instinct for protecting others, and that is a lovely quality to have.