To stick my nose in with harassed mum hitting toddler

[RosyPrimroseface]

In the road the other day my DS was on my shoulders and he suddenly said "Why that mummy hitting girl?" I turned and saw a woman across the road slapping a girl (aged about 3).

It wasn't very hard but the girl obvs was crying a lot. And as DS noticed first, she had evidently hit her more than once, as i saw one and he the other.

I called across "Did you just hit her?!" in a voice which was definitely judgemental. And posh and annoying i expect. She said "I gave her hand a tap!"

I said "That's not good. It's not ideal."

Now. I was twatty and irritating. I didn't make life easier for the girl; as her mum then was even grumpier. Nor the mum, who was angry and gave me a bit of abuse, naturally. I don't think I should have commented.

But - I don't think it's ever ok to hit children, and maybe if there's more reaction from bystanders it will become generally less acceptable??

Or am i just a busybody? Interested to see balance of views.

We do. I also think the use of emotive language doesn't help the debate - it switches people off. No one advocates hitting children. We are talking about smacking which is legal and divides opinion.

Screaming can be just as abusi e and my point originally was that a op suggested shouting screaming were preferable alternatives.

I don't think you can say that without also qualifying 'screaming'. Otherwise the mum screaming out of control profanities 'wins' against the mum issuing a smack to a nappied bottom.

You where in the wrong, how an adult chooses to chastise or punish their child is none of your business.

And there you have why so many children live shit lives without anyone trying to help - people like the poster of this heartless gem couldn't give a shit and/or think hitting children is ticketyboo ok.

OP, in your situation I would probably have said "are you ok, do you need any help" - because I think this might get more traction and often hitting a child shows a parent at the end of their tether but I don't think what you said was so bad either. I have reached the end of my tether with my boss, my dog, my husband at times. I don't hit them. So when I reach the end of my tether with my child I didn't hit them either.

In no other circumstance - elderly person being slapped/wife being slapped/dog being hit/ man being hit would MN posters tell you it was none of your business. Really the only free-pass on violence these days is very small children.

And the poster who asked what you do when they push your buttons. Well for a start you don't hit them. If that is the only weapon in your arsenal for a child behaving badly you are failing and need to get some help and learn some strategies on how to deal with toddlers/small children.

FFS she only gave the girl a hand tap, hardly violent or agressive.

So many saints on here. The rest of us can only aspire to your perfection.

I lost it once when my toddler kept pulling away from me on a busy road while I was pushing his brother in a pram. I smacked him. Did I regret it? As soon as I hit him, I regretted it and spent the rest of the walk home in tears. Did he stop running off? You bet he did.

Stop polishing your halos + accept that most of us will not be able to live up to your ideal.

I hit my DS twice, albeit not at same time, once because he stuck his fingers in a socket and second because he stepped off the pavement. It wasn’t because I was angry or out of control but because I wanted to give him a shock.
I’m sure some perfect parent will be along in a minute to say if I supervised him better it would of prevented it and perhaps they are right.
But I just wondered if this woman was of the same mindset, though I’m going back over ten years and things have and are still changing. I now know my way was probably wrong but he’s still alive so I just have to live with the fact that I am better educated and equipped to deal with children without negative reinforcement.

I got proper beatings when i was little, if I had got hand taps now and again, I do not think i would have been psychologically damaged.

How did you feel about the situation as it was going on? My guess from your language is that you were looking at it from a v child centred angle, which is probably the norm and, judging by the abuse that can go on, that's not a bad thing.

BUT from an adult centred perspective, I see a parent who is not abusive yet has crossed a line and lost control. I see a woman who felt harrassed and ashamed as her child acted up in public. Chances are, given the child's age, it is a regular occurrence and could be the end of a long line of events so the mother reacted more strongly than, say, you might have done.

I have seen this shocked reaction from other parents - in particular those of even tempered children.

I wonder how people would react if their child's teacher was allowed to slap their child because they 'pushed their buttons'. Some teachers even manage not to shout and scream in the face of utter defiance.

It's a different relationship

Well done for speaking up for the child op most myself included wouldn't dare wade in

It’s never possible to get a meaningful answer to this question in mumsnet. It all depends on exactly what happened, and a lot of instinct. We can all tell the difference between a parent yanking a 3yo’s arm and screaming at them.....out of panic because the child just ran into the road. Or a parent who’s at the end of their tether and losing it.....but not in a way that would be damaging and which the parent would feel bad about once the dust has settled. No single poster is perfect; some are amazing and have endless patience but have other failings, some are short tempered but have other virtues. Neither is a better or worse parent in the round, excepting of course extreme cases.

The sanctimony you get from back-patting strangers telling other strangers they’re wonderful for interfering in each and every situation of a child being smacked is proportionate to their hypocrisy. Would these same people intervene, I wonder, in each and every instance of a man hitting another man? No, probably because they’d be worried about retaliation and would say that adults can defend themselves...... except they can’t, of course. So actually they’re just worried about not getting hurt themselves. Easy to be negatively judgmental when you have nothing to lose yourself.

In my book, there are no acceptable reasons to hit a child. However, parents, like all people make mistakes, and all parents are first time parents at one point or another. I would be much, much more worried about a parent who hisses belittling remarks at their child with a smile on their face than a parent who smacks a child’s bottom out of frustration. I would trust my instinct to judge whether intervention would be beneficial to anyone.

Either way, sanctimony is truly ugly.

Never ever ever hit them! Shout/scream/walk away but never ever hit.

There are articles that claim that shouting and screaming can be just as damaging as corporal punishment.

The person who is your comfort and security totally losing it and shouting or screaming? Horrible.

The answer - breathe. Just breathe. This too will pass.

Leigh, it is cowardly and despicable to hit someone smaller than you who cannot hit back.
And your own child? You are beyond words.

I haven't smacked my DS.
But I just want to say to all those saying that shouting and screaming etc is better than a smack, it isn't.
I grew up in an emotionally and psychology abusive home. It was horrendous, and our parent could walk around proudly saying how we weren't ever smacked, yet ask us now and hell I wish we had been smacked and never put through the absolute mental terror we were.
My friends who were smacked haven't had to have counselling.

Kids are at times hard work and you have no idea how the way you deal with it is for them. And no I'm really not a perfect parent but I think it's ridiculous to somehow play the perfect parent for never giving a tap or a smack.

As you say, OP, you were judgemental and interfering, and did nothing to uphold that mum.
Obviously it's much better to bribe your kids into tolerable behaviour with screens and sweets or to scream and shout at them than to enforce a safety rule with a smack (not). That's the current parenting fashion, anyhow.

So next time the child misbehaves she will not only think she doesn't have to take notice of her mum, but that random strangers are entitled to tell her mum off in the street?

I love the way slap has morphed into "hand tap" on this thread. The woman slapped her child so distinctly that the OP's son noticed it and asked about it - I don't think kids notice "hand taps" and ask about them. Then she slapped her again - not hand-tapped. That phrase was made up by subsequent posters.

All of the people saying "polish your halos" etc. You know that slapping isn't right and if you don't someone needs to say it to you. If you lose it in a stressful or dangerous situation and give a slap, we all understand. If you think slapping children is fine - shame on you.

Obviously it's much better to bribe your kids into tolerable behaviour with screens and sweets or to scream and shout at them than to enforce a safety rule with a smack (not). That's the current parenting fashion, anyhow.

Yeah because those are the choices. Some really really inadequate parents out there if this is all you can imagine as responses to bad behaviour in a child.

My dad occasionally tapped me as I child when I misbehaved. My mum screamed and shouted. I can tell you it wasn't the tapping that has done the lasting damage

pallisers you’re right. A couple of my friends say they ‘tap’ their kids when they’ve been really naughty. What they actually mean is that they smack them, but they just don’t want to use that terminology because they know that you shouldn’t really smack your kids.

Any type of physical chastisement is wrong, IMO. You have to draw the line somewhere. And let’s not kid ourselves about ‘taps’. If it really was a tap, then nobody would blink an eyelid and you wouldn’t even think about it. It’s a smack, however lightly you do it.

I would have judged and quite likely said something too. I think smacking/hitting a child is disgusting and really bad parenting. It is hard not to interfere when you witness something that you feel is so morally wrong.

I saw a post on here ages ago, something like: Hitting is meant to cause someone pain, so calling it a ‘tap’ means it’s not for causing pain, so it’s a ‘touch’ then? You touch your child to dominate, humiliate and punish them? Clutching at straws, people who hit kids need to go and hit themselves instead until they develop some basic life skills. Fuckin trash. (‘Never did me any harm!’ Well, yeah, it did, it made you think hitting kids is fine). Well done OP.

*You where in the wrong, how an adult chooses to chastise or punish their child is none of your business.

Whether you personally believe in it is irrelevant, they are not your child.*

Wow. Scary attitude.

I often want to step in with parents and tots, I have lots of advice in my head...but I keep it there

Question for OP: would you have done the same with a dad? .... somehow I think women are judgier about other women, than they are about men.(MN is very sexist in this respect)

Obviously it's much better to bribe your kids into tolerable behaviour with screens and sweets or to scream and shout at them than to enforce a safety rule with a smack (not). That's the current parenting fashion, anyhow.

Are those the only two parenting styles you can think of?

It is a scary attitude, Rollon. Some people seem to think that parents own their children. Those of you complaining about 'sainthood' and 'polishing halos' really need to have a word with yourselves. There is nothing saintly about not hitting children, it's a perfectly normal standard to set for anyone in charge of children