To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

YANBU, what's tolerated in boys is stamped out in girls as "not nice behaviour".

And when uou don't let yours join into rough play you get all sorts of people saying you're hard on them. Uh no, just trying to raise decent men..

Yep. At nursery the other day her keybworker said she was bossy. I am pretty sure it she was a boy she would be telling me that she is assertive.

Totally agree op. And as a result, my none boisterous son has struggled to fit in when he changed schools because it is full of boys like you mention.

Find a different playgroup.

Well my children can be noisy/giddy/full of energy at times and they happen to be male. If they ever get too much they will be told to calm down.
In a playcentre you can expect children to be noisy and full of energy though Same with a park. If you want peace and quiet then I don’t think those places are for you.

I’ve also seen girls act boisterous too. Those mums laugh it off and call it “sassy” and “strong willed” behaviour.

Disagree. At the playgroup I go to there are 2 girls that are very badly behaved, no one disciplines them, the boys all play nicely and try to stay out of their way!

Funinthesun - my daughter has plenty of energy. And can make plenty of times, and yet doesn’t run around snatchings, hitting and screaming. It’s not ‘energy’, it’s poor behaviour that’s inappropriate in a group setting

YANBU
My eldest is a girl & i got so much "oh you dont understand because boys are different" no they are not!!!
DS came along & guess what totally different personality but I enforced the same boundaries as DD.

I hate that teachers/sports coaches lazily divide by girls & boys all the time or worse try to get the girls to beat the boys or the reverse. They are children each with their own strengths.

Sounds like shit parenting rather than toxic masculinity. (And I'm usually first in line to blame the patriarchy )

I disagree, I know plenty of little girls who are absolute diva brats.

A lot of boys are let off boisterous behaviour because of gender (I don’t agree with this) but plenty of parents are raising manipulative, entitled little girls too. They are snide in a much quieter way but can produce the most ear piercing tantrums when they want to.

I don’t know if there are more lazy parents than there has ever been or if it’s that society darent intervene like it used to. ‘It takes a village’ doesn’t apply anymore.

Don't know about anyone else but certainly don't tolerate bad behaviour from ds.

Hitting screaming and snatching are all things which cause ds to be told off and he has to apologise. He is 2.

*I disagree, I know plenty of little girls who are absolute diva brats.

A lot of boys are let off boisterous behaviour because of gender (I don’t agree with this) but plenty of parents are raising manipulative, entitled little girls too. They are snide in a much quieter way but can produce the most ear piercing tantrums when they want to.*

God the gender stereotyping in this post is appalling.

I have two strong-willed children and I've never heard anyone say "girls are like that" or "girls have so much energy". YADNBU at all.
I frequently have to tell people that DD does X too when people tell me DS is being such a typical boy.

Half the boys at the group are fine, yet you are worried your boy will be a 'horrible little shit' (DREADFUL expression to use about a child, ANY child. DREADFUL)

'boring middle class names'

Your point is not invalid - as I'm sure this kind of process does kick in in some instances, more so in the past than now, perhaps - but the way you express it does discredit it rather (as well as the nice misogynist stereotype of 'hormones making [you] crazy' that follows it...)

YANBU

I see the contrast most at mixed sex birthday parties. Boys will be charging around shouting and piling onto each other, girls will be told off for getting carried away or being rough.

I disagree as well. At my playgroup one child screams constantly, hits, grabs toys off others. Another kicks and bites, grabs all the toys from singing at the end, and is generally bad tempered, shouting and screaming. They’re both girls.

YANBU I totally agree. I’ve had friends who even encourage their toddler boys to fight and chase each other with sticks. Generally, even amongst more active little girls, fighting and aggression is not encouraged.

A viral video on YouTube recently showed a little boy who had been weeing in a drawer in his bedroom instead of going to the bathroom. All the comments were saying how funny it was etc. If this was a little girl people’s reactions would have been very different.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I have a toddler DS (2.5). He's sensitive, he's gentle, he's INSANELY clingy (way too much so, I wish he was more independent), he won't say boo to a goose. He gets walked all over at playgroup and nursery.

Anecdotally, in the circle I move in, I have noticed at this age that, in actual fact, the girls are much more sturdy and outgoing.

I'm one of four, three girls and one boy. My brother was by far the most quiet and sensitive toddler.

Wow. So if a 3 year old boy is a little boisterous at a playgroup that’s not just kids being kids but him displaying his “male entitlement” .

Kids are kids and it’s awful to paint them in such a light for doing what comes naturally. To be honest I think the issue is that a lot of parents squash their daughters boisterousness because it’s not feminine. At my sons nursery the girls are just as wild and energetic as the boys, and they all play together, no difference. You will always get some kids that can’t sit still and some that are so chilled out you don’t even know they’re there. It’s called having different personalities and is nothing to do with sex. For example I’m one of 4 - 2 boys and 2 girls. My older brother and sister were very boisterous and needed loads of physical activities or they’d play up, me and my younger brother were really quiet and docile. All raised and disciplined exactly the same way, that’s just naturally who we were (and still are now to be fair)

I agree that boys and girls are treated differently but no doubt the parents you describe wouldn’t intervene if their little girls were misbehaving either. Some parents just don’t do discipline.

my daughter has plenty of energy. And can make plenty of times, and yet doesn’t run around snatchings, hitting and screaming. It’s not ‘energy’, it’s poor behaviour that’s inappropriate in a group setting

Yes and my children don’t do that either. They might get a bit too noisy at times but like I said they will be told to calm down.

Those behaviours you mention are definitely not just limited to boys anyway. One mum I know calls her son kind and gentle but her daughter is very strong willed and will “fight to the death” to get what she wants and she thinks all boys and girls are like that.

In generaal boys develop speech later than girls so the choice can be between saying boy will be boys and being very harsh (I respond harshly). Obviously a lot of parents don't like to show this in public so they choose the ignore the behaviour until they get home. Boys often look older than girls their age so they may not be as old as you think.

I'm not sure about toxic masculinity. Not much of it in my single parent family. I did find my son a million more times harder to parent than my daughter though. Because he is extremely boisterous. He was utterly exhausting. And no doubt people did cut their eyes at him and call him a horrible little shit. 8 years later he is still boisterous and noisy with a huge amount of energy. He is also extremely polite, politer than any child I have ever met, and will go to great lengths to help people, whether they are friends, family or strangers. Truth is you don't know what you're going to get. I had years of struggling with my boy, but now I'm very proud of his behaviour. I'm assuming that these boys aren't very old either, and thus it's difficult to make a judgement on sort of adult they will turn in to. I guess it's easy to sit back and judge anyway though.

Oh and they are constantly referred to as ‘sassy’ and ‘divas.’ And the girls hitting the boys over the head couldn’t possibly hurt apparently ‘she’s nowhere near as tough as him! Haha!’ I think it’s more a reflection on people’s parenting!