To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

Beezie - I’m open to suggestions....

I floated Thomas past my DH the other day, saying I’d never met a naughty one. He just said ‘Voldemort?’

My son was as early a talker as his sisters, loved to play quietly with Lego or read a book and was hugely into history from an early age.

Not all children are the same (stating the obvious) but I certainly didn't experience any of the behaviours you describe in my son. He's an adult now and entirely great!

YANBU. I know someone who is systematically beating her daughter for being naughty but never touches her son even though he’s a horrible little shit. The boy is older and golden child, the poor little girl is a toddler.

I certainly wouldn't tolerate bad behaviour like that from my two boys. Neither would I if I had two girls instead.

whatthefox if you know someone who is systematically beating their young child I hope you have reported them to the police.

Why is running around and being loud seen as bad behaviour anyway. Most of the kids at the playgroup I went to would run around and shriek at the end of the session as the parents were helping tidy up, find coats etc.
It's what excited little kids do surely.

I don’t think it’s just a parents of boys thing or parents of girls. Some people just have a huge sense of entitlement and they pass it onto their children.

I have indeed duggees. They know it was me and have threatened me as well.

l live next door to a family who have two boys and a baby boy. The boys are probably about 6 and 8. They're noisy, playful boys, but also an absolute joy. l've told them so many times that if their ball comes in my garden, they don't need to ask me if they can get it, but every single time, there's a knock on the door, and "ls it ok if we get our ball from the garden?"
They play football and games in their garden (often with their dad!) and they make noise, but it's lovely. They're polite and well mannered and an absolute credit to their parents. l often invite them in to see my house rabbits, which l wouldn't if they were cheeky or bad mannered.
l appreciate it's partly to do with the child, but it's a hell of a lot to do with the parenting too. l've no doubt these boys will grow up to be respectful, decent men.

YANBU. I know someone who is systematically beating her daughter for being naughty but never touches her son even though he’s a horrible little shit. The boy is older and golden child, the poor little girl is a toddler.

Why are you citing this as if it were a typical example of gendered attitudes to children rather than alerting social services or the police to this very serious case of child abuse?

Oh and once when she slapped her daughter across the face, the little girl didn’t even react. Which lead me to believe she had experienced this so many times before she didn’t even register it. Sorry I get angry just thinking about it

Cross-post - I'm glad you've reported it, but I still think it's very odd to use that as an example as if it was typical of the parenting of boys and girls

YANBU But it’s the parenting more often than not.
For example a girl and boy can do exactly the same thing and it’s labelled differently.
Both charge into each other in rugby tackle = Naughty, rough girl or typical boisterous boy behaviour
Both want to dress up = Normal girl behaviour or experimental sissy boy behaviour.
Unfortunately some people really live by these stereotypes.
I actually remember being relieved I hadn’t had boys into my in laws family as it would have been harder for me as they assume all males should be chauvinistic thugs.

I have alerted the police Margaret, read the thread.

Whatthefoxgoingon

That's unbelievably upsetting and disturbing. As others have said, it's child abuse.

This might be an extreme case but I’ve definitely seen many cases when boys are allowed to get away with much worse behaviour. It’s gendered differences in upbringing and it’s not a myth.

I think hormones are making you crazy. I have a boy ( with one of those boring middle class names you mentioned 🙄) he's has tons of energy but I would not let him misbehave like that without consequences.

I also know a few toddler girls who are just as boisterous but also don't get away with behaviour like that.

Maybe you need to change your playgroup

they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about?

How judgemental. I find this relentless obsession with class rather odd. Surely parents are free to choose whatever name they wish for their children. I don't see anything wrong with those names, irrespective of their behaviour.

I think it is unfortunate that you have encountered a number of parents who don't parent their child properly and on those occasions they happen to be boys.

All kids need boundaries, discipline etc - my 3 boys have had this and turned out just fine.

We know some kids - girls and boys - whose parents chose to parent in a different way and they haven't!

Seriously people here are saying that 2 year olds can be taught not to run around and bump into people or walk over them and try and climb them and try and take toys other kids want? Seriously? I fully accept that if you consistently address the behaviour now maybe in a year or two they might finally stop doing it... but we're talking about toddlers here right? You can't actually MAKE them sit still and calmly listen and wait and be patient and not the slightest bit greedy, jealous or territorial right? They're toddlers? Isn't that in the job description?

This is a tricky one for me. I am constantly telling my 3yo son off and trying to enforce boundaries and stop his overly boisterous and sometimes frankly disgusting behaviour, which is far worse and more offensive than my 5yo girl's. However, sometimes I just listen to myself and realise how negative and angry I am being and I think he feeds off it. So I then feel I need to consciously make the effort to let a few things go (so long as it is not impinging on others too much) and try to be more positive. This often works much more effectively at curbing the worst excesses than anything else. But as a feminist it makes me feel bad that I probably allow more things from him, simply because I can't tell him off ALL the time as it makes us both miserable. I justify it as parenting the children I have (regardless of gender) as what works for one does not work for another.

I have seen this too. My 6 year old is quiet and not boisterous and he is a totally anomaly. The toddler (boy) is a whirlwind and I am properly tough on him.

As a Mum of boys I think it’s the parenting failures rather that the boys being ‘boisterous’ at your playgroup. My boys are very well behaved and would get told if thay snatched or hit anybody. I’ve seen little girls and little boys being horrors.

I don't really think it's to do with gender; rather parenting. A lot of parents appear oblivious of their child acting inappropriately and are not the slightest bit embarrassed or even aware that they're running rampage through mums and tots/soft play/cafes/wherever. It's not about me wanting 'peace and quiet' as a previous poster suggested, it's about being able to enjoy a day out without some awfully behaved kids and their gobshite parents ruining it with their 'it's all about me' attitudes.

Totally agree OP. A lot of parents seem to find their little boys' pushing, shoving, throwing, yelling and rampaging around absolutely delightful.

It's not toxic masculinity that's causing this behaviour, it's just boisterous children being boisterous. However, not having their behaviour challenged and managed by adults sends the message to those children that they can do whatever they want to, and it doesn't matter how it affects others. Hence the sense of entitlement that OP was talking about