To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

I do think that the treatment of boys vs girls is wrong. But this is how stereotypes continue, parents/society have different expectations based on attributes and therefore reinforce them, consciously or not. Hence boys will be boys, girls are harder, boys have more energy, girls like to sit and draw etc.

I've seen it with many parents, not just middle class, and with teachers and other staff within schools.

YANBU

We went to soft play the other day with my dd (2) and had to leave after 3 really boistrous 8yr old boys turned up. The lady who was on the till apologised and gave us a refund. The manger was on the way to kick them apparently. Absolutely appalling behaviour. They were wearing the local private school uniform. The parents didnt even give a damn, they will probably pack them off to boarding school when tbey have realised what monsters they have created.

Interesting though so why at secondary do.... boys fall out now and again then get on with it generally. But ,,,,girls... bitch and whinge and be generally nasty and very personal insults to each other for ages afterwards . Since boys are supposedly so naughty early on and girls supposedly so good - where does it go wrong with the sweet lovely well behaved young girls to make them change so much...

Love Island.... boys generally all get along - girls bitching at each other behind backs and name calling to face all the time

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

At this point you lost me.

Mother to 3 boys here.

None of my kids do what you say in the OP.
Yes they have their naughty moments youngest has more
When they do they are told thats not how we behave, that they should be good boys etc
I will try and explain to them what theyve done wrong and what the right way was of doing it (taking turns etc)

I know other boys that are like the OP.
Parents do FA.
I also know some girls like the OP agaim parents do FA

2 boys here, both extremely active (oldest is 5 and needs at least 1 hour intense sport per day to be happy - and i mean proper swimming, running etc, not just softplay etc). Softplay is something we do after sport, never instead of. So, we make sure they gets enough exercise before we go anywhere and we parent them. a lot of kids just don't get to move much, so they are bursting with energy and misbehave

yadnbu. Society is sexist, hence on average the people who make up society are sexist. This means that on average parents are sexist too.

The difference in how children are treated by gender is the fundamental driving force for the continuation of our sexist society.

The difference in how children are treated by gender is the fundamental driving force for the continuation of our sexist society.

I do agree with this. But it's important to recognise that boys are not inherently more boisterous or disobedient, that comes down to a bit of individual personality and a bit of parenting.

I see it the other way too for example - parents talking about how sweet and gentle their girls are when they are swarthy little things who go round pushing other kids out of the way on the slide etc.

YANBU. As a mother of DDs I have witnessed this. Not from all parents, but more often than not. This goes handed in hand with a sense of superiority from some mothers of DSs. Only last week an acquaintance of mine posted on social media that ‘Boys are the best’ when someone announced a new arrival. In isolation this doesn’t seem to bad, but this particular person has previously said she was glad she didn’t have DDs, always over praises male activities and is very quiet on social media when females achieve success.

Have no idea what the boys names have got to do with their behaviour! What on earth has this got to do with the rest of your post?

As a parent of just boys, I hate attitudes like this. It’s more to do with parenting than the sex of your child. Stop assuming your child will be like what you’ve suggested even before he’s been born. Not every boy is a future rapist or murderer. Im assuming your DP/DH is a decent male role model and not forcing you into having children against your will?

My cousin and her husband have two children (grown up now). The girl was the eldest, and my cousin said that she could have sat her at the kitchen table with a colouring book and crayons, and she wouldn't move for hours.
The boy, on the other hand.... fearless, naughty, and very funny.
Both brought up the same, but the girl was very like her mum, a proper homebody. The boy was a daredevil (once fell out of a tree and ended up hospitalised with bruised kidneys). When asked why he climbed the tree, he said "my friend told me to."
Both young adults now (24 and 18). They lost their dad last year, and boy stood up at his dad's funeral and did the most amazing, touching eulogy which ended in him saying his dad was his hero.

MachineBee

I have found the opposite. As the mother of a son who is quite likely to remain an only child people are constantly saying "oh but don't you want a daughter?"

A lot of parents seem to find their little boys' pushing, shoving, throwing, yelling and rampaging around absolutely delightful.

The same way parents call their little girls “divas” and finding their behaviour hilarious when they do exactly the same things listed above.

I just find all this incredibly sad tbh. Toddlers are toddlers. All of them will whinge, throw tantrums, strop about, push other kids, run around madly, be crap at sharing, scream, be disobedient. They may not do all of these things (my DS, for example, has never raised a finger to another child) but all of them, regardless of sex, will do at least one of these things. Sex has no bearing on this. The only bearing it does have is how parents deal with the above behaviours when they happen, and if they modify their parenting according to the sex of their child.

Most of us who are gender critical make a real effort not to treat our boys and girls any differently as young children.

For example a girl and boy can do exactly the same thing and it’s labelled differently.
Both charge into each other in rugby tackle = Naughty, rough girl or typical boisterous boy behaviour
Both want to dress up = Normal girl behaviour or experimental sissy boy behaviour.

Yep, both my children change their clothes multiple times a day if allowed. The cleaner goes on and on about how full DS' washing basket is and says "he should have been a girl!"
(We don't ask her to do his washing by the way. She does change sheets but obviously she sees his washing if she's cleaning his room).

Very dear relatives who have two older boys and one much younger girl: Boys are like dogs, you have to exercise them a lot. (er yes your DD is effectively an only child as she's 10y+ younger than the next one so obviously she was less work!)
Call my DD "beautiful" but not my DS.
They are the same age as me (late 40s/early 50s) so not exactly elderly and like us have DC in school.

By the way all those saying "it's just poor parenting" are missing the point.

The OP does NOT think boys are like this.
The OP thinks that the parents think boys are like this.
So yes, it's poor parenting. But it's poor, stereotyped parenting.

Of course it’s a thing, otherwise the phrase “boys will be boys” wouldn’t exist.

It’s one of the more tiresome phrases one encounters as a parent.

Actually one thing I have noticed which is really worrying is that people treat eating differently depending on if a child is male or female.

EG my MIL seems determined to believe that my DS eats loads because he's a "typical boy". The thing is, he doesn't. He eats like a sparrow. He will have days when he only has a piece of a toast and a yoghurt.

@BatShitBuns

That’s a really good point. See also (and conversely) “ooooh I do love to see a girl with a good appetite”

As a parent of just boys, I hate attitudes like this. It’s more to do with parenting than the sex of your child. But that's exactly the OP's point. The boys aren't inherently badly behaved, they just get fewer boundaries.

I think this is completely true. I see it when boys the boys are fighting each other at school and the parents are indulgent. But then step in when they start hitting girls. How is it okay to hit other boys but not girls? These parents don't mean to be encouraging a certain type of misogynist culture, but they are.

DH is a SAHD and quite conscious of this kind of thing when he's out and about. He's always surprised by how often he will hear parents say things to boys like, "Oh, stop being a cry baby" or "You are throwing like a girl" and of course, he never hears those comments to girls.

Obviously ALL of these are generalisations. But the problem with the patriarchy overall is that it doesn't require 100% of people to be behaving a certain way 100% of the time for attitudes to seep into the general population.

There is also a fairly high tolerance level of girls being allowed to hit boys as children.

When I was kid at school it was perfectly acceptable for the girls to hit the boys if they annoyed you. I know that sounds horrible now, but it was just normal then.

I have never heard appetite discussed in the context of gender at any toddler group I've been to or among relatives or friends.

And I hear it discussed a lot in other contexts (my second is HUGE and has the appetite to go with it, my first tiny and though he didn't eat much as a baby as a toddler he eats loads). Husband calls the second baby fat when he is eating (he's huge but he isn't really fat) or crying because he wants feeding. When first baby is begging with his eyes I get lots of "you're starving him!" (jokingly). Nothing about how masculine their desire to eat is.

Yabu...I've seen it from plenty of mums who've only got daughters... looking on in disgust at boys and their energetic behaviour. Come back in a few years time op and let's see how your view has changed!

I have never heard appetite discussed in the context of gender at any toddler group I've been to or among relatives or friends.

I hear it loads

"boys as teenagers will eat you out of house and home!"

"let him have another biscuit - he's a growing boy!"

"I bet he likes his food, doesn't he?"

These are all comments directed at my toddler DS, who is a skinny little thing, not a chunk. His cousin, who is a girl, and has a similar body type and a similarly small appetite, never gets these comments.