To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

All boys are potential rapists. Sorry if you don't like that, but it's true.

How about just view them as children while they are children instead of putting adult behaviour on to them?

All children are potential future criminals (even girls), but it’s a bit bleak to look at children and think of them that way.

You’re a potential criminal. Sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s true.

I saw part of a TED talk the other day that talked about how girls are also discouraged from taking risks, which filters through into how they behave as adults. These weird things we do without realising it have a huge impact on the way we socialise our children and what they grow up thinking is normal.

*Yes they are, and the majority of actual murderers are men.

Why do you think more men kill than women do? Could it be something to do with the fact our culture encourages toxic masculinity? Or is it just coincidence?*

I don't understand why mums of boys get so defensive about this. It should be the opposite. It's because I love my son that I want to challenge this culture and bring him up to be decent.

I have no idea. It's really not something I would worry about my child potential being tbh. Obviously I bring them up the best I can, with all the love and support they need.
I want the best for them but at the end of the day they are only children.

You can try all you want, but people can do evil things regardless of their upbringing.

Yes they are, and the majority of actual murderers are men.

Ah, the same old argument that’s thrown out when you want to ignore the fact that there are female criminals too.

“But men do it more!”

Yes love, but that doesn’t erase the fact that women do it too. And doesn’t make female crime any less serious.

Do you think just doing that works with all children? It doesn't and that includes girls. Yes people should do there best to stop their children causing problems for others but you sound smug

I don’t think that’s the point.

Of course individual parents have different strategies as to managing their children.

But boys are given a “get out of jail card” before they even misbehave with statements like “boys will be boys”. They are also hampered by the “boys don’t cry” and “man up” comments.

Whilst arguably each example is small, toxic masculinity is a sum of its parts and should be tackled both in and of itself and as a wider push against everyday sexism

You’re a potential criminal. Sorry if you don’t like that, but it’s true.

Why would I mind you saying that? Of course I am. We all are.

How about just view them as children while they are children instead of putting adult behaviour on to them?

Maybe read my other posts and see that that's exactly what I'm advocating for.

Yes love, but that doesn’t erase the fact that women do it too. And doesn’t make female crime any less serious.

Show me where I said that 1) women don't kill and 2) female crime is less serious than male crime.

I didn't. I simply said that male violence is more prevalent than female violence.

I saw a great FB post of a boy carrying a placard that had 'boys will be boys' crossed out and 'boys will be held responsible just like everyone else' replacing it.

Had one Mum say it to me and I said 'and therein lies the problem' and I don't think she got it!

Men have a lot more testosterone in their body than women
Boys don't have more than girls though. Especially not toddler boys. By the end of primary, yes, some boys will be starting puberty.

I never found any difference between boys and girls on the ability to share and tantruming and I think it is parenting that makes a difference here.

I am less confident about boisterous/energetic play.

I guess the thing about a boisterous rough boy is they are really easy to see as they are the one making all the noise and charging about. You probably aren't seeing all the lovely quiet ones playing quietly in a fairy dress (looking at you DS2)

In many studies boys tend to be the more active children, they also show less signs of understanding facial expressions and emotions, they can also be more psychically aggressive, which scientists say prenatal testosterone is a big factor.

I really don't think it's completely down to poor parenting.

drspouse
I get that prepubescent boys don’t have more testosterone than girls. This thread is about the effects of parenting on boys when they grow into men - male entitlement, aggression etc.

Ew what a nasty, judgy OP dressed as some sort of feminist observation. From what I’ve seen awful parents can have offspring of either sex...

I totally agree with you. Grates on me no end. I also have a dd and I’m expecting a boy and terrified! I also notice that males are babied and pandered too far more than girls, wonder if this has something to do with their ‘slower development’ I’m always hearing about. But hey what do I know (yet)?

"But boys are given a “get out of jail card” before they even misbehave with statements like “boys will be boys”."

Some boys perhaps. No one in my circle talks like that and I don't think they think it.

@thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter totally agree! As a Mum of boys I find the post really unfair!

I tell my boy off if he's naughty. End of. That is clearly just bad parenting if they let them run riot. So yes yabu!

Also my niece was a little shit when she was a toddler and her dad just let her get away with it. Then he did the same with his boy. Bad parenting and unfair judgement on boys. It's how kids are raised...what you put in is what you get out!

I also notice that males are babied and pandered too far more than girls, wonder if this has something to do with their ‘slower development’ I’m always hearing about. But hey what do I know (yet)? What utter rubbish! Better make sure you don't pander to your new baby then or he won't get past the sitting up stage! For info my DS has hit all his milestone bang on and is one of the bright sparks at nursery.

I was at a gathering of my NCT group on Friday and the children are now three. We had a hot tub and a bbq. The boys were jumpig in and out of the hot tub, making lots of noise and generally having fun. The girls were enjoying themselves too but had a splash around and then went off to play dolls! Boys and girls are different and what's wrong with that? It doesn't mean, however, that I let my son get away with things. He has to say please and thank you and apologise if he's been naughty. I think the real issue is parenting and not the children.

The boys were jumpig in and out of the hot tub, making lots of noise and generally having fun. The girls were enjoying themselves too but had a splash around and then went off to play dolls!

My son would have been in a corner playing with the dolls. His little friend who is a girl would have been somersaulting herself into that hot tub.

I really hope you don't pass on those horrible judgemental views to your own children or you're just as guilty of being as crap as all those parents of the boys you're posting about 🙄

I think the real issue is parenting and not the children.

Yes exactly I agree with you. But parents just don’t realise that they treat boys and girls differently from the get go. I don’t actually believe boys are slower (although this is what I’m warned about constantly). From observation the boys are know are babied a lot more and the old ‘boys are so much slower’ excuse is constantly trotted out and does seem to be used as a get out for poor behaviour. I don’t know why this is though. And my dd would never play with a doll, she likes construction, trains and cars. All girls and all boys are different.

Before I had children I'd have said YANBU however my boy recently turned three. Get back to me once you've got a three year old son. Mine barely survived the weekend with me trying to curb the shitstorm of inappropriate behaviours that came our way. Yes, it has occurred to me that I'm just a shit parent.

There is such bollocks being spouted on this thread that I hardly know where to start.
Children have different personalities but more to the point they have different parents. Maybe some lazy parents resort to tired old stereotypes to excuse their ineffectual parenting. I have 2 boys, they have very different personalities but the same rules apply to both. Bad behaviour has consequences, if they are acting like arseholes at playgroup or wherever then they get told off and taken home.
I've never seen this ridiculous trope of naughty boys getting away with bad behaviour/girls playing angelically. I've seen CHILDREN of both sexes playing nicely or badly. It depends on their parenting whether they are getting away with it.
OP i think you are being very blinkered here - have a good look at the next play group you attend, you may well see some girls behaving badly or even boys playing nicely.

So other boys are 'little shits'.
Nice.
People probably think that about your kid in private, you arent perfect you know. If you feel so strongly tell them.
Ime boys do run around a lot. Doesnt mean they are going to become criminals. You had a point until then, and then showed your total twattiness at the middle class names think.
Find a surestart centre on the muddle of a council estate-or do you think youre too good?
Feel sorry for your kid tbh