To ask if you think it is controversial to say that a person with male genitalia should not be allowed to use changing rooms used by people with vaginas?

[aaarrrggghhhh]

www.theargus.co.uk/news/16334391.trans-women-are-still-males-with-male-genitalia/

The Argus (Brighton newspaper) says that it is controversial for someone to say this:

"many trans women are still males with male genitalia, many are sexually attracted to females, and they should not be in places where females undress or sleep in a completely unrestricted way.”

The definition of controversial is likely to give rise to a public disagreement.

Do you think it is likely that most people would disagree with the statement that people with penises should not use the changing rooms which people with vaginas are using?

Please see the Feminism board where there are many posters that will tell you what you want to hear.

Maybe the way to go in the future with new buildings is to create individual lockable cubicles,and do away with any kind of open changing area. No one to leave cubicles unless appropriately dressed.

Yanbu. And this should not be confined to the Feminism board, it isnt 'Project Fear'.

I give it 6 months after this is introduced as a legal right for all men, for posters to be blaming feminists, saying we didn't warn them enough.

Ugh!! This again!!

If you’re talking about trans women or femme-presenting non binary people then yes, I do.

If you’re talking about trans women or femme-presenting non binary people then yes, I do

Why?

Bombardier25966 - I know what the Feminist board majority view is. I'm interested to know whether the majority of the general population are likely to disagree with the statement.

dinosaursandtea - for clarity. I'm not asking your view - I'm asking what you think most people think. Do you think this is what most people think?

Most of the people I know I think would say trans women should use female facilities. I’m not sure personally.

No of course its not controversial. It makes perfect sense.

RiddleyW - do you think when they say that they are thinking of people with their penis still there? Or do you think they are thinking on post-op transition people?

Oh and I don't think most people would think that is controversial.

Look on the FB comments section of any Vice article about trans issues and you will see that most people think the idea that men can be women is tosh.

If you’re talking about trans women or femme-presenting non binary people then yes, I do.

Sorry, slight aside, but what is a 'femme presenting non-binary person'? What the chuff does that even mean?

Most people assume that trans identifying males will be like old school transsexuals. They are generally stunned, when they realise that the still have their penis and are heterosexual.

If you mean a man with a penis - and a woman with a vagina then they should stick to their own gender segregated changing room!

I don't think most people would disagree with that statement, OP. Especially if they realised that nowadays trans women can look like Alex Drummond, picture attached, who wants to broaden how people think about gender, and whose pronouns are she/her.

but what is a 'femme presenting non-binary person'? What the chuff does that even mean?

Than goodness it's not just me, was wondering that myself!
Can we have that sentence again in English please?

PositivelyPERF - that's what I think. But I'm genuinely interested to see if its not what the general population thinks.

I think YANBU.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - I don't think they would either. Which is why I read that article and was really interested in the way its written - as if it is the absolute norm for people with male genitalia to use women's changing rooms and it is saying that they shouldn't which is controversial. Hence I just wanted to check to see what the general view was!

Just have a communal changing room with lockable cubicles around the edge for those that want them (or maybe off to the side..?). Then people can just choose. Personally I hate getting changed in front of anyone and would choose a cubicle regardless of who was around me.

Ive been to a few places that have mixed toilets.. I’m all for that!! Balances out the horrendously long queues outside women’s toilets and the non queues at men’s.

Perhaps it is down to the definition. To me a trans woman is a post operative man who lives and identifies as a woman.

Under my definition then I have no issue with a trans woman using a female changing room etc and vice versa. In the same way if the person is pre-operative then they are just a man living as a woman as they have not transitioned yet and so would use the facilities for their current rather than preferred sex.

@NotAsGreenAsCabbageLooking - I think though then what would happen is men would use the common bits and women would be effectively forced to use the cubicles.

Anyway - this thread isn't meant to be about how communal changing rooms could work - I was just interested in whether it really is the norm for people to think it is okay for people with male genitals to use the same changing rooms as vagina folk - to the extent that saying otherwise is considered "controversial".

I agree with op.
It shouldn't be contraversial to segregate changing rooms by sex.

@CornishMaid1 - I agree. I think this is one of the big issues in discussions about this - the very confusing use of language.