To be saddened by the transphobia and homophobia on Mumsnet?

[spannablue]

I used to come on here for a good laugh. But now there's just so much casual, vitriolic, uninformed rubbish om here!

Do people really think that trans women are secretly trying it on to take over women's space? Have you not seen what they have to go through (for some, horrific surgery; for others, lashings of abuse; job losses; loss of contact with family; street attacks)? Why would anyone choose that?

Did you know that if your kid comes out as trans, they are around 48% likely to attempt suicide, and around half of them succeed? All the literature/research on this shows that it's transphobia, stigma and bigotry that causes this, rather than some innate pathology. When a trans kid is supported to be who they want to be, those suicidal feelings tend to go away. If you've ever had or known a child with depression, anxiety, or who self harms, you'll know the fear and terror that they might succeed.

We're talking about a tiny minority of people who are trans. But what I'm seeing on Mumsnet amounts to collective bullying.

When did it become ok to be so judgmental? Have you ever actually met a trans person and listened to them with an open mind?

There are people of all kinds on social media - trans, not trans, gay, straight, bi, lollipop ladies, lawyers, teachers, academics and bus drivers. Some talk a load of crap. And others engage in intelligent, informed, openminded debate. Please consider trying out your ideas thoughtfully with these people before perpetuating the sort of hateful kneejerk nonsense which can have terrible consequences.

For the record, I'm an academic researcher in the field of applied sociology. I'm not trans. I'm a lesbian with four kids aged 3 to 25, one of whom is nonbinary.

Ploppers just wring their hands about all the Transphobia, Homophobia, Biphobia they've allegedly seen on here.

Yet they can't give a single concrete example.

The sky is pink with purple spots. It is so, because I say it is so. Hence - it is true

What about the lesbian AMA thread? Straight womem accusing lesbians of being men looking for sexual kicks and having a fit every time someone disagreed with them.

Rebel Yes fair enough KK was criticised but was she accused of child abuse?

I'm saddened by the fact that as soon as women explain that we aren't taking this shit anymore we get silenced by the "phobias".

Don't want a woman with a penis getting changed in front of your DD in the changing rooms? Transphobe.
Sickened by people paying to use wombs to grow babies? Homophobe
Want feminism to centre on women's rights? Transphobe
Want women to be able to access the rights and equalities we have fought for for years? All the phobes!!

Like that this is in AIBU though. Peaking the public .

minerva don’t twist things. That AMA thread was interesting enough and people were very engaged and interested. One poster called troll (it happens on lots of threads - half of the sex threads are probably made up on MN). Then the OP started saying she was going to PM people to join a special WhatsApp group where they could continue to talk about being a lesbian. Other posters thought that was a bit odd. Understandably.

Straight womem accusing lesbians of being men looking for sexual kicks

I didnt read all of the thread so may have missed this

So women who confirmed they were definitely straight said that all lesbians are men looking etc

Or were the comments a bit more specific than that

I totally agree with you @spannablue even after all the negative publicity MNHQ is allowing blatant transphobia and today I noticed a rise in homophobic posts too.
And you being called a bigot by the first person to respond?? Oh the irony!

I agree with you OP. Deeply unpleasant reading.

The problem on the I'm A Lesbian AMA was people being asked to share their personal contact details with a random poster on the internet.

Talk about twisting things🙄

Kk was heavily critisised, using another woman to risk her health because you dont want to yourself is despicable. You are trying to pretend that every post on that thread said that, which is bullshit.

Zeeboo what homophobia, im a lesbian so i normally spots it fast, but its never the gc feminists who are homophobic.

You are uninformed and ignorant.

zeeboo
Link to examples of homophobia and transphobia on here and we can all report them to MNHQ

Don't want a woman with a penis getting changed in front of your DD in the changing rooms? Transphobe

Sickened by people paying to use wombs to grow babies? Homophobe

Want feminism to centre on women's rights? Transphobe

Want women to be able to access the rights and equalities we have fought for for years? All the phobes!!

^ This

I can't copy and paste from the app to give specific examples unfortunately. Convenient I know! I shall hopefully get time tomorrow though!

It's easy to copy and paste from the app - just touch the screen and highlight what you want to copy, press copy, then post here and press paste. Exactly the same as on desktop.

I'm looking forward to some concrete examples.

It’s not transphobic to have concerns about self Id and how it impacts on women. To seek to silence women who have those concerns seems to me sexist and mysogynistic. And deeply unfair.

OP I think that you have misunderstood the terms of the debates being held on Mumsnet, from what I have read they are about protecting women's spaces NOT about transphobia. Also conflating transphobia with homophobia is unhelpful and inaccurate, they are not fundamentally the same. Transwomen/men can be victims of homophobia, equally those who are not trans can be victims of homophobia. Similarly someone could be transphobic without being homophobic and vice versa. Or are you saying Transwomen in relationships with men, for example, should not be considered to be in a heterosexual relationship? If so then you are yourself being transphobic.

Mumsnet have a policy which allows for freedom of speech and debate, if you see a post that is in breach of that policy for reasons of blatant discrimination or hate speech then report it and Mumsnet will deal with it.

What you do not appear to be saddened by are the real threats and actual forms of violence being perpetrated against women merely seeking to debate issues of sex and gender, I have provided examples below:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242186-Fun-new-game-TERF-translator

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3283279-To-think-I-shouldn-t-have-to-worry-about-Mumsnetters-safety-just-because-they-want-to-attend-a-lawful-public-meeting?pg=2

The actual examples of women's spaces being invaded, below is one of many examples, if your research skills are as you state then you should not find it difficult to find more:

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/02/17/transgender-rule-washington-state-man-undresses-locker-room/80501904/

Threats of and actual violence against women are exceptionally high and should not be the basis of some form of competition between groups. If you are not aware of the forms of violence women, simply by virtue of being born women undergo, I have provided links to some non-biased, objective reports.

The forms of physical and emotional violence these document are what women are interested in preventing, women-only spaces were created to protect women because of these threats to their very existence. This is not transphobic it's pro-women; saying it's transphobic for women to want to campaign for their rights, is like saying it's racist for a person of colour to campaign for theirs instead of campaigning for another 'oppressed' group such as people with disabilities. Identity groups tend to campaign for issues that affect them, that doesn't mean that they don't support other issues.

www.cps.gov.uk/publication/cps-violence-against-women-and-girls-crime-report-2016-2017

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/domesticabusesexualassaultandstalking

www.amnesty.org.uk/violence-against-women

And for the record I do know transpeople, mostly transwomen. I have been to trans clubs, I have more than once used a loo in a trans club which was non-segregated, and without doors I might add. I have also in the past had a relationship with a male to female transwomen, a very satisfying one, which ended amicably. I think that assuming that women who fight for women are anti-trans is insulting and reductive and used primarily to silence women who wish to speak about their concerns. And that is something I am more than deeply saddened by.

Not non binary, neither male ir female will do. I agree, my friends Son is a Transman, who is Autistic, mental health issues and T1 diabetes, I see the struggles they go through, he has attempted suicide. I feel there shoukd be open discussion on the trans movement. For me, a Transwoman will always be a biological man, and vice versa, we don't want women's issues and concerns to be walked over and brushed aside, especially in relation to self I'd, and the problems can result from it.

There was also the poster who asked if there was a link between sexual abuse and lesbianism. Is that homophobic enough for you?

I thought the suicide stats had been widely discredited.
I was also under the impression that trans people's suicide rates correlated strongly to whatever other social group they belonged to, ie disaffected teen, abuse survivor , autistic young person.
In fact aren't the autistic suicide stats even higher

Isent Feminism about women's right, if it's not, what is it then🤔

OP I am also surprised that as an academic researcher you did not see fit to back up your assertions with links to objective statistical data, which as any academic knows is fundamental to presenting a case.