To be saddened by the transphobia and homophobia on Mumsnet?

[spannablue]

I used to come on here for a good laugh. But now there's just so much casual, vitriolic, uninformed rubbish om here!

Do people really think that trans women are secretly trying it on to take over women's space? Have you not seen what they have to go through (for some, horrific surgery; for others, lashings of abuse; job losses; loss of contact with family; street attacks)? Why would anyone choose that?

Did you know that if your kid comes out as trans, they are around 48% likely to attempt suicide, and around half of them succeed? All the literature/research on this shows that it's transphobia, stigma and bigotry that causes this, rather than some innate pathology. When a trans kid is supported to be who they want to be, those suicidal feelings tend to go away. If you've ever had or known a child with depression, anxiety, or who self harms, you'll know the fear and terror that they might succeed.

We're talking about a tiny minority of people who are trans. But what I'm seeing on Mumsnet amounts to collective bullying.

When did it become ok to be so judgmental? Have you ever actually met a trans person and listened to them with an open mind?

There are people of all kinds on social media - trans, not trans, gay, straight, bi, lollipop ladies, lawyers, teachers, academics and bus drivers. Some talk a load of crap. And others engage in intelligent, informed, openminded debate. Please consider trying out your ideas thoughtfully with these people before perpetuating the sort of hateful kneejerk nonsense which can have terrible consequences.

For the record, I'm an academic researcher in the field of applied sociology. I'm not trans. I'm a lesbian with four kids aged 3 to 25, one of whom is nonbinary.

My issue is with language policing and taking away female only spaces. I have looked after people who are terrified of men so if someone can self identify and gain access to female spaces when they are clearly a man it's going to reduce access to the community for some people.

Thanks, plants!

Oooh good luck! Prepare for the influx of straight posters telling you that you're either a special snowflake, stupid or that you're just pretending to be a lesbian because you're not gender critical. There's no such thing as civil debate on here around the topic- it's a case of being shouted down with aggression and derision if you don't toe the line.

OP
My concern is that the concept of what is a women is in danger of being defined by the very stereotypes that I have spent most of my life fighting against. My biology makes me a woman not make up, hair, liking pink and kittens. I don’t feel like a woman, I am simply biologically female whether or not I subscribe to the gender stereotypes casually ascribed to females.

It's not trans women we're worried about, don't you get it?

Bla bla bla transphobia bla bla bla homophobia bla bla bla bullies bla bla bla bigoted.

No one gives a shit what trans people people do in general. A lot of us on here even support their right to wear what they want call themselves what they want and not to be abused ,discriminated or harassed over it.

What we care about is women's and girl's rights. The erasure of the word woman and what it is to be female. The vulnerable position women and girls are put in. The disadvantage in sports for example. The abuse towards children made to transition far too young. The fact that someone can do sweet fuck all besides saying I'm a woman today (keep the penis and the beard and the suit) and we're somehow supposed to accept it?
The fact that a woman has her rights,needs and wants negated because "Shirley" needs validation.
The fact that this madness is all encompassing and nothing seems like enough. The fact that lesbians are abused and insulted if they don't accept the "ladydick" which is just a "large clit" really. The fact that you can apparently identify as a 6 yo girl now despite being a 45 yo father.
The fact that every day women are told who and what they are,what they should say what they should think by men that are doing "womaning" better than them.
The fact that validation of "feelings" is more important than actual living,breathing,thinking women.

I could go on and on and on..

Transphobia and homophobia????

No, woman are standing up for their rights as women.

And also defending lesbians who don't want to have sex or relationships with someone with a penis.

And your suicide statistic is not only bullshit, it's trans propaganda.

I guess you can afford to be saddened when you have such a surface level understanding of what women are worried about.

Maybe you should actually read some of the threads on here instead of just wringing your hands over false statistics?

Your suicide statistics are proven to be fatally flawed. The study that produced it only asked 27 people who identified as trans and of those 15 of them had considered suicide.

You are talking out of your arse.

I haven’t ever seen homophobia on here. I have seen numerous posts from mums with wives and children and the advice is much the same as any other.

As for transphobia, I’m not transphobic, I’ve met quite a few trans people (adults and children) and got on fine with them. I don’t use dead names and I use preferred pronouns and generally try to be respectful. However I do think a small number of people (not the majority of trans people) are being ridiculous and entitled in a way that is discriminatory to women.

It’s funny how trans boys get to change alone becuase the boys might be difficult, but trans girls are demanding to use the girls changing rooms without caring how uncomfortable that might make other girls. It’s a emperors new clothes situation. I’ve seen debates on mumsnet about the rights of women being eroded by trans women.

I also dislike immensely the “blue brain pink brain” nonsense that seems to have returned from the 1950s becuase it suits an agenda. It’s not transphobia to point out that scientific facts don’t match the lies being propagated to children.

I have every sympathy with those who are experiencing gender dysphoria but it doesn’t give people the right to demand treatment beyond equality. Demanding rights at the expense of others rights isn’t fair or equitable.

Third space not my space!

My daughter is a lesbian and would consider sex with a lady penis rape that allegedly makes her transphobic in some people's eyes (some not all)

OP it shows how weak your argument is when you lump together alleged transphobia with homophobia on MN.

There are few places on the web that are more friendly towards gay people. Gay people do not threaten women's protected places.
Similarly we respect trans people, providing they do not self ID in order to invade spaces set aside for the female sex.

Academic researcher my arse.

YANBU

For examples of homophobia please see the recent Tom Daly threads and the lesbian AMA thread.

For examples of transphobia just head on over to the feminism board.

Do these ploppers who start these threads think they're the first person to have done it?

If half of 48% of trans children succeed in committing suicide, how come the Tavistock said there was only one child they knew of who did this, nearly ten years ago? Do you know better than the Tavistock?

Trans rights are all the rage at the moment. They are a bunch of people suffering a mental illness that is very sad for them. That is no good reason to ruin hard won womens’ rights in order to not make trans people uncomfortable.

I’ve not seen any homophobic threads on mumsnet, you haven’t discussed that in your post.

I’m really saddened by homophobia too. Particularly the rape culture, surrounding the pressure L & B women face to have sex with penis, from trans activists.

Tripping

it's a case of being shouted down with aggression and derision if you don't toe the line.

Kinda reminds me of what women are subjected to from trans activists when trying to attend meetings to talk about this issue.

What's their battlecry? Oh yes, that's it
#nodebate

OP, are you out there?

I need your links to peer reviewed journal articles reporting on the research which led to those suicide findings (proportion and reasons). Including outline of sampling frame, sample size, comparison groups, statistical models and how inferences about causation were drawn.

Please and thank you.

For examples of homophobia please see the recent Tom Daly threads and the lesbian AMA thread.

Be specific please. Link to an actual homophobic statement, and I will be the first to report it for removal.

In respect of Self-IDs I'm disgusted by privilege pretending that it isn't privileged.

Especially as they've appropriated oppressions black women experience, and co-opted terms black women use to explain the intersectionality of racism and sexism, to do so. It's what arrogant privilege does all the time.

I'm disgusted that you know Self-IDs/no transition are the issue for many but you are sneakily using Transwomen to further your aims
You won't say "Self-IDs" nor explain fully what this means, for fear you'll get a different response out there.

But since I can't be "Disgusted Of London" every day if I fancy a laugh I look at funny posts and threads. Logical... isn't it?

Which part of the Feminism Board did you used to go to for "laughs", then?

As for homophobia - pull the other one🙄

I am 100% against Self-ID. I will stand alongside Transwomen. No Transphobia over here. But not Self-IDs.

How is it homophobic?

Minerva its not homophobic to think commercial surrogacy is fucking awful.