To be saddened by the transphobia and homophobia on Mumsnet?

[spannablue]

I used to come on here for a good laugh. But now there's just so much casual, vitriolic, uninformed rubbish om here!

Do people really think that trans women are secretly trying it on to take over women's space? Have you not seen what they have to go through (for some, horrific surgery; for others, lashings of abuse; job losses; loss of contact with family; street attacks)? Why would anyone choose that?

Did you know that if your kid comes out as trans, they are around 48% likely to attempt suicide, and around half of them succeed? All the literature/research on this shows that it's transphobia, stigma and bigotry that causes this, rather than some innate pathology. When a trans kid is supported to be who they want to be, those suicidal feelings tend to go away. If you've ever had or known a child with depression, anxiety, or who self harms, you'll know the fear and terror that they might succeed.

We're talking about a tiny minority of people who are trans. But what I'm seeing on Mumsnet amounts to collective bullying.

When did it become ok to be so judgmental? Have you ever actually met a trans person and listened to them with an open mind?

There are people of all kinds on social media - trans, not trans, gay, straight, bi, lollipop ladies, lawyers, teachers, academics and bus drivers. Some talk a load of crap. And others engage in intelligent, informed, openminded debate. Please consider trying out your ideas thoughtfully with these people before perpetuating the sort of hateful kneejerk nonsense which can have terrible consequences.

For the record, I'm an academic researcher in the field of applied sociology. I'm not trans. I'm a lesbian with four kids aged 3 to 25, one of whom is nonbinary.

Minerva
Did you report that post to MNHQ?
If it was a homophobic post then they would rightly delete it.

Do I want her to have to change in a swimming pool changing room next to a fully-bepenised man who’s decided to self identify as a woman

I know some women only spaces are still protected under current law, but I still havent established whether public changing rooms are?

Totally turning nature and biology upside down in favour of pleasing the loud TRA. Some examples are cis, chest feeding, menstruators. Well describing people by their body function, depersonalising them. You need a blooming dictionary for all the new terminology. I was watching a programme on Trans, apparently there are 28 genders🙄🙄🙄

minerva

That post was deleted for homophobia

I know because i was one of apparently many that did so

personally i have never suggested that there aren't any transphobic, racist, homophobic, disabalist, sexist etc posters

Some people are complete fuckwits

But as i said earlier...report and they are usually deleted

Do you know what I'm saddened by? The targeting of women for daring to have an opinion. That Pink News article is a case in point. I've seen very strong criticism of Tom Daley and his husband just about everywhere online, particularly on Twitter and Facebook from other men. I didn't see angry articles directed at those threads and comments, but heaven forbid feminist women have opinions about commercial surrogacy (which is illegal in this country) or motherhood.

I think that assuming that women who fight for women are anti-trans is insulting and reductive and used primarily to silence women who wish to speak about their concerns. And that is something I am more than deeply saddened by.

This!

Of course there will be a few homophobic posts. Like there will be the odd twat on every thread whos sole purpose it is to offend.
But dont pretend like its lots of posters. And Op is obviously calling gc feminists on here transphobic and homophobic, she is linking these things. Its bullshit.
This site is not hostile to lesbians.

I am heartily sick of the whole trans fad. Until scientists work out how to turn a Y chromosome into an X then changing from a male to female or vice versa is impossible. You have just changed your appearance. I am also sick of this, " I knew I was the wrong gender from an early age, I always felt like a woman" Bullshoes! How on earth could a male KNOW what it feels like to be a female? They may as well say they feel like a spider or a wolf or a dolphin. People who think that they are one thing, when they are obviously are not are suffering from a delusion. If I went around saying that I was actually a chimp, I would be evaluated for mental health issues.

Oswin I don't think mumsnet is hostile to lesbians but I've noticed an increase in homophobia which I find concerning.

Honestly,

Please report all incidences of homophobia...I certainly report anything like that

Or any phobias or ists!!!!

(Proper ones obviously....not every phobia, that would be silly)

It's an ask me anything thread that has descended into lets all be great chicks and admit to owning false plastic battery powered dicks that we keep in the bedside drawer and hardly ever use. LOL! Oh and I wear birkenstocks and own doc martins.

Made by one straight GC feminist to another who is a lesbian. In context it is inferring the lesbians on the thread are pretending because one said they don't subscribe to a specific stereotype (use a dildo very much) and and another said they did (wears DMs). Made this evening on the AMA thread. Still standing. I don't feel Mumsnet as a business is homophobic but an awful lot of posters are. The fact the comments be deleted by moderators does not suddenly mean the posters weren't homophobic.

I don't know if this site is exactly hostile to lesbians, but feminist chat seems to have a lot of weird identity policing around that - I see a lot of 'you're not a real lesbian because you don't agree with my particular party line and no real lesbian ever would' which I imagine could be quite distressing.

The site is also heteronormative as all get out which is sometimes frustrating and I see a fair bit of homophobia aimed at gay men on here that seems to go largely unchallenged.

Ah, this newspaper article answered my question on current legislation for single women spaces only and places such as public changing rooms which is a case by case basis. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-people-no-right-single-sex-spaces-government-penny-mordaunt-toilets-changing-rooms-a8414771.html

I have no problem with transgender people and say let people live as how they wish. Posts on mumsnet though have educated me on potential problems of self id and the need to keep some spaces single sex.

Will someone please explain what binary and non binary mean?

The the rent a womb comments, are not just directed to gay people, but to heterosexual couples, who pay ££££ for surrogates aka the Kardashians and others like them. I think it is more to do with commercial surrogacy where a lot of money is exchanged, for in effect a baby,rather than alturistic surrogacy. I think they would have got different reactions if a friend volunteered to be their surrogate, and it was done not on a commercial basis.

Ozyman Male and Female.

It has been attracting all sorts lately but on the whole its not homophobic.
Like its not a site that is awful to fat people but there was a few proper dicks on a thread yesterday.

Straight womem accusing lesbians of being men looking for sexual kicks

I didnt read all of the thread so may have missed this

So women who confirmed they were definitely straight said that all lesbians are men looking etc

Or were the comments a bit more specific than that

tripping

I assume you are answering the question i asked minerva, if you are not please accept my apologies

But im not sure how your answer relates to my question

I completely agree though that posters were absolutely saying that one person was pretending...wouldnt argue that point at all

Tripping and Alaaya I have read posts on Mumsnet that are: racist, misogynistic, ageist (there's an exceptionally ageist thread active at the moment), insulting to people with disabilities, dismissive of people with mental health issues, anti-vegan, anti-vegetarian, pro-Tory, petty, misinformed and a whole host of things that I have a problem with. Where a post is blatantly discriminatory I report it, and in all cases the post has been deleted. We live in a society where not everyone will hold the same views as us, sometimes we have to live with that (Brexit a key example for me) sometimes we can protest because people cross the line into hate speech etc...That is not the fault of the site, the site is simply a reflection of what different individuals and groups think. I for one get tired of the endless 'first-world' problems such as 'should the person in front of me in the supermarket put out the next person sign or not' but I don't blame the site for that. However I would rather a forum where views are aired with a monitoring policy than a site that operates rather like a 'totalitarian state' where people can't say what they think. I know from history what that can lead to. Also for many of us who do not fit the 'majority' identity I rather think it is us who would end up being silenced if this were the case.

There were a number of comments on the Tom Daly thread that said a baby needed a mother/wrong two men raising a baby etc. I can't be bothered going back though as I had to unintstall the app and go on the actual site to be able to copy that last comment. Total ball ache.

Are there any large internet forums that DONT have racists, homophobes etc? An unfortunate fact of the internet is, you find all sorts of people on it.

The problem with ploppers on here is they can't make up their minds whether they mean Feminism board is "all the phobes" or MN in general.

I see and challenge racist posts and threads on here quite a lot. I don't then shout about the whole of 1 particular board or whole of MN being racist, because that would be nonsensical wouldn't it? As it isn't true.

& it's why you can't give mass examples.

A poster on this thread mentioned TRAs physical threats and violence towards women. She gave a list of several links and examples.

Yet you didn't respond at all.

Do you think it isn't noticed that you studiously ignore truth in favour of your unfounded generalisms?

Furthermore you're banging on and on about MN when out there in the real world - you know, where we all live: -

A TRA is punching a 60 year old woman in the face

• whilst across town groups of TRAs are on a staircase, intimidating and aggressively blocking a petite, quite frail woman who is a cancer survivor and her supporters from entering a room to have a meeting.

Again - I'm glad this post is in AIBU.. .

To be saddened by the transphobia and homophobia on Mumsnet

Well taking the assumption you are a biological female, then I feel saddened at the lack of critical thought from some people, including yourself, on Mumsnet. Luckily the critical feminists are fighting this for you. Because if we don't win this you'll realise in the future how much you fucked up. If not for you, then certainly for any daughters you may have.

OK so we've literally went from there's no homophobia on the site/ give concrete examples/see you can't find any to but that was deleted/it's only some people/doesn't count because it's about a wider issue .

tripping

Again wouldn't disagree that comments like that could be considered homophobic

Honest question though...is it homophobic if it just refers to men? I think it is but i think some of the posters concerned would say it wasn't homophobic as they werent including lesbians in their comments

I don't care about two men or two women raising a baby, as long as it is loved and cared for. On DIY SOS there was a fantastic gay couple, who adopted 6 children with disabilities that no other people wanted, it was awsome and brought tears to my eyes. They were truly beautiful people, those kids were so lucky to have them as their parents. What does sit badly is the commercial side of surrogacy, the buying of babies, like commodities.