to find it hard to talk about race/racism as a black woman without feeling like I'm 'playing the race card'

[CalliopeSparkles]

Sorry if this isn't the most eloquently put post. I read some of the threads on here where people seem to know so much about their subject, it's a little intimidating at times (not a bad thing) so will do my best to get my point across!

I am a mixed race woman. Black and Caucasian. Recently saw a clip of George the Poet during a search:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkmV6viAfz3/?utmsource=iggsharesheet&igshid=1ilippwo0ufby

Nothing we haven't seen before!

My dad is a runner and went out running one evening. He was pulled over by the police who asked to search him and his bag, saying he looked like a known criminal (he's a professional with a clean record, never broken a law in his life - other than simple ones like breaking the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt). My brother was strip searched in a shopping mall once after someone thought he was shop lifting (he wasn't), my other brother lives in London, works for the BBC, clean record, and has been stopped and searched 4 times in 2 years, all for no reason (that he could tell anyway). These are all hurtful for me to hear and I know there is something wrong with this. If I've ever entered in to a discussion about it however it often turns in to people becoming defensive, trying to defend why the searches might have been done, and a refusal to see an issue. I believe that most people in this world are good, and kind, and are in no way bigoted or racist, however why is it so hard for some people to simply admit that racism does exist? It's almost like it's taken as a personal insult at times, even though I am as explanatory and unbiased as can be in my discussion.

The last straw for me was the other day when my whole office was in total uproar about a crime stoppers report regarding a white male that was called a 'cracker' by two black men. This is awful racist behaviour, however the anger is never there when it's the every day 'normal' racism we hear about towards ethnic minorities.

AIBU to think that there IS a problem and to be frustrated when trying to discuss it with those who won't engage unless it's their own race that's affected?

Sorry that's meant to say 'playing the race card' - ran out of characters!

Yanbu Op, hopefully most will agree. I am sure someone won’t.

I was listening to a debate on the radio recently. The guest on there was a lady who has written a book about this very subject. The book is called something like 'why I'm no longer talking to white people about race by Reni Deep Lodge.

I'm Caucasian and even though what I see is just the tip of the iceberg I do wonder, why IS there a race card? Seems like an easy way to shut down a conversation which needs to be had.

Just to explain my view a bit: I feel like empathy for others only happens when there is some kind of social justice movement and even then it only lasts as long as the commotion in the press/ on social media.

The experiences of you and your family are awful, there is no excuse. I’m not black but I am from a bame community and I think black people have it really bad. Black women worse and black Muslim women have it really shit. A Black Muslim woman with a disability I imagine could tell us all a thing or two.

cheeky more than happy for people to disagree as long as they explain why. It's something I've wanted to discuss on here for a while but felt a little nervous previously to do so.

Have you read 'Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge?
'Amid every conversation about Nice White People feeling silenced by conversations about race, there is a sort of ironic and glaring lack of understanding or empathy for those of us who have been visibly marked out as different for our entire lives, and live the consequences.'

(Ah, x post.)

OP as a non white person living in the UK I agree with you and I actually feel racism is rife and it saddens me.

Who strip searched your brother? By that I mean was his clothingcremoved down to skin level.

You sound reasonable @CalliopeSparkles .

By the way have you watched ‘Dear White People’ on Netflix, very pretty and stylish but does raise some really interesting points?

@Buster72 the police did. He refused to let security search him because he had done nothing wrong. He told them to look at the CCTV which they said they didn't need to do as 'someone saw him steal' (they didn't). Police were called and he was strip searched. When I say strip searched, he had to remove top half first, then bottom, down to his skin.

Haven't watched dear white people nor read the Rennie E Lodge book (which is sat on my bookshelf!) - I do need to read it but find myself simply becoming frustrated by it all.

I think it's really important to talk about racism too, however I find so many people shy away from it and I'm left with no discussion, but when it's regarding something that effects other people (the example I used in my OP) there's outrage in the office, and if I were to say 'what about that incident I raised where a black man was beaten by a group of racist white people and you didn't bat an eyelid because it doesn't affect you' I would be totally shut down.

100%agree with you op. There's been many instances where I've not brought up something that's happened (to me clearly because of my skin colour) because I'm afraid I'll be told that I'm playing the race card so iv just had to let it go.

The strip search of your brother sounds legal from that description. I just wanted to ensure it was not a private security. If it was alleged he had stolen an item small enough to b secrted about his person then they have grounds.

Your dad was stopped because he resembled a criminal. It happens.

Your brother was stopped 4 times for no reason. Well he would have been given grounds at the time and offered a written record which may have helped dispel his fears.

For the record I was searched twice in my youth. And frankly given my attitude appearance and the circumstance I am not surprised.

I read an article in the Guardian that I shared on Facebook because I was so horrified to read that there are people out there who don't think our society is racist. For me it just beggars belief that anyone would genuinely think that (I’ve had enough of white people who try to deny my experience

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/24/white-people-tv-racism-afua-hirsch?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard).

OP thank you for raising this, and I'm not surprised you were uncertain about doing so. I'm white, and I once suffered a racist verbal attack. It shook me to the core and I can still recall how vulnerable it made me feel. But that was one incident in over 40 years. For those who suffer racist abuse on a regular basis it must be really difficult. What your family members have been subjected to sounds awful, and you'd struggle to find a white person who would be in a position to share similar experiences.

Personally I think we should be talking about these things so they are not normalised, and anyone who accuses another of "playing the race card" needs to try to imagine life in that person's shoes.

@Buster72 You are putting across the exact attitude that prevents any non-white person from feeling like you can empathise with the genuine problems that face them.

@Buster72 my brother was searched before CCTV was watched. CCTV could have ruled out any uncertainty. He had been in the shop for under two minutes when the allegation was made.

My dad was stopped because he was black. The known criminal was described as 5"11, black, brown eyes, short black hair. They wanted his details and he refused. He hadn't done anything wrong. He was left scared and did well to stand his ground.

There was no reason for my brother being stopped, other than it being a random stop and search. I'm sorry but nobody is randomly stopped and searched once every 6 months or so for two years.

You really do sound like you are one of the people I referred to who would rather make excuses for racism than accept that there is an issue. You would find it hard to track down a white woman whose brothers and father had been stopped and searched, strip searched for false allegations of theft, stopped on an evening run for looking like a criminal. The examples I used are not an extensive list, there have been many, many more occasions.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I think you should at least consider that there is something amiss here.

With the examples you give it's possible they were race related but also possibly not.

The type of clothing your dad was wearing for instance...and the car your brother drives. Both just as (if not more) likely to get you stopped.

Failing any other obvious reasons though, yes they were probably race related stops.

My dad was in hi-vis running gear. Sorry I should've added that as that was the funny thing about it!

Brother doesn't drive. He wasn't in a car any of the times. He works late shifts and walks to and from work. Silly thing to do in London but it is only between bus stops and he can't afford Ubers.

If it was alleged he had stolen an item small enough to b secrted about his person then they have grounds.

And you feel there was no racism involved in the fact that the allegation that provided grounds for the search was a complete fabrication?

@Firesuit and this is my point. He didn't take anything. Nor would he (I know my brother). Why the allegation in the first place (which was by a member of staff).

Anyway back to the original point? What happened to my family was pretty shit, and it happens all the time. Sometimes it isn't race related but SOMETIMES IT IS. This is my point, but people often refuse to see it.

Tbh I don't think being obstructive to security guards or the police will do any good.

Yes I obviously have different life experiences but if my dad or brother were stopped by police for those reasons and refused to give their details I'd be calling them an idiot not applauding them for it. And I'd be telling them they deserved to get arrested/strip searched for it too.

Great post OP. Racism in Britain is absolutely everywhere and it doesn’t make me particularly worried for my children.