to find it hard to talk about race/racism as a black woman without feeling like I'm 'playing the race card'

[CalliopeSparkles]

Sorry if this isn't the most eloquently put post. I read some of the threads on here where people seem to know so much about their subject, it's a little intimidating at times (not a bad thing) so will do my best to get my point across!

I am a mixed race woman. Black and Caucasian. Recently saw a clip of George the Poet during a search:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkmV6viAfz3/?utmsource=iggsharesheet&igshid=1ilippwo0ufby

Nothing we haven't seen before!

My dad is a runner and went out running one evening. He was pulled over by the police who asked to search him and his bag, saying he looked like a known criminal (he's a professional with a clean record, never broken a law in his life - other than simple ones like breaking the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt). My brother was strip searched in a shopping mall once after someone thought he was shop lifting (he wasn't), my other brother lives in London, works for the BBC, clean record, and has been stopped and searched 4 times in 2 years, all for no reason (that he could tell anyway). These are all hurtful for me to hear and I know there is something wrong with this. If I've ever entered in to a discussion about it however it often turns in to people becoming defensive, trying to defend why the searches might have been done, and a refusal to see an issue. I believe that most people in this world are good, and kind, and are in no way bigoted or racist, however why is it so hard for some people to simply admit that racism does exist? It's almost like it's taken as a personal insult at times, even though I am as explanatory and unbiased as can be in my discussion.

The last straw for me was the other day when my whole office was in total uproar about a crime stoppers report regarding a white male that was called a 'cracker' by two black men. This is awful racist behaviour, however the anger is never there when it's the every day 'normal' racism we hear about towards ethnic minorities.

AIBU to think that there IS a problem and to be frustrated when trying to discuss it with those who won't engage unless it's their own race that's affected?

Sorry, NC for this because I know many people on here won't like what I have to say. This incident happened yesterday afternoon. We were at the local cricket ground to watch my DH and DB play and my DSIL and I were on the sidelines chatting while my nephews(5 and 7) were playing football.

There was an ice cream van parked on the side and DN1 wanted 1 pound for some ice cream. We gave it to him, he was hopping to the van with DN2. The pound coin fell down from his pocket and a couple of boys (who happen to be black, around 15 or 16 years old) picked it up. My DSIL, people around us and I watched them pick it up. My DN2 turned around and saw them pick it up and asked for it back. The older boys were very annoyed, yelled at my DN and asked why the fuck they were being racist? The 5 year old did not know what they meant and started crying and the older one just hugged him and brought him to us. The older boys started laughing and walked away.

This sort of incident, where the race card is played unnecessarily, is when people lose all respect and sympathy. My DSIL and I was too scared to confront the boys. A couple of people did walk up to them and tell them off, only to be abused further.

I HATE the “generation” excuse. Racism wasn’t a problem for my white granny when she married my black grandfather in the 50’s.

@mythreecents that's awful and I'm sorry you experienced that. Isn't it a bit of a false dichotomy to compare these two situations however? Surely you are smart enough to know that there is a difference between people who are arseholes and accuse others of racism 'because they can' or for a laugh, and those who want to have an open and sensible discussion about the prominence of racism in the uk?

I think it is so important to have open discussions about racism.

I’m white so know nothing of BAME people’s experiences first hand. But I have eyes and ears - I’m willing to have the former opened and to listen to people who have something to tell me about racism in the UK.

mythree those boys were nasty arses, to tar all black kids with the same brush would be totally wrong, as to tarr all white kids with the same brush.

Victim blaming & Blaming the class of coloured people for not always being perfect. My eyes are being really opened here.

This thread has proven my point exactly. I feared it might but here we go. Point proven!

No it is definitely not an excuse. But when people say what a racist country this is, how racism is rife etc, I think they are terribly naeve about what goes on in the rest of the world.

With the examples you give it's possible they were race related but also possibly not.

The type of clothing your dad was wearing for instance...and the car your brother drives.

Wtf? I don't know any white people who have been stopped due to the car they drive. So why would it be okay to stop a black person because of their car? Jesus.

The apologism on this thread is shocking.

Explaining racism to the average white person is like explaining sexism to the average man. They might empathise but they will struggle to understand because they won't experience it. That's when you get straw man arguments, devils advocating, and "yeh buts".

The closest I've ever come to being discriminated was when I was parked up with a friend at around 11.30pm in a car park. His friend had just been taken to hospital for a ripped spleen or something mad whilst bmxing so we were just talking and smoking. We were totally legal to be there, my car was 100% fine, I hadn't been drinking, we were smoking fags not weed. They assumed we were drug addicts so the treatment we had was absolutely shocking to my white, middle class, A* student 18 year old self- we were separated I was cuffed and put in the back of the car, frisked, they searched my car and my person, they ran my details to check I had tax MOT insurance and when it came back that I did they then decided that I needed to present my docs to a police station in a few days anyway, I got ratty at that point because they'd looked up all the details and subsequently got told I was going to get a public order cautiom. They were asking all sorts of stuff like how much was my friend paying me for favours (naively I said he normally splashes me a couple of fags for a lift home), where I bought my gear from (no idea what that meant, I thought they meant clothes). I'd always seen the police as a point of safety but that day I definitely got a different perspective on my own privilege.

Compare that a few years later when I got pulled over at midnight driving my work transit because a couple of lights weren't working, "oh don't worry love just get it fixed when you can, just wanted to check you're safe".

Uh huh. I can see my own privilege.

@Allegorical I think you are underestimating people a little here. You're basically saying that by people being upset about things that are bad, but not as bad as in other countries, they are unaware of everything else that goes on in the world. It's a really weak argument.

And now I'm feeling as wound up as I was with the cracker comment! I knew I shouldn't have started this thread!

OP, I agree. I will never know or experience what you have experienced in this country and I am truly sorry for what you and your family have gone through. However, there should be more of a discussion while also looking inwards to fix a few problems

YANBU I am of the same background as you and I would say it's really frustrating in the workplace because comments get made to and in the presence of black and Asian people that are utterly racist but they generally shrug them off and ignore them because it would be so damaging to their career to call it out, and pretty pointless when bosses downwards think there isn't a problem because they aren't (in their eyes) racist. We talk to each other about this, but not to the majority white organisations we work for. Many of us leave to work for ourselves because we can't bear it.

YANBU. I think people find it hard to hear as they want/need to have faith in the establishment and they don't want that bubble to be burst so they try to maintain a state of denial. I also think, as someone who is white and tries to treat everyone based upon how they behave rather than what they look like, people can feel a little defensive as it can feel like we are accused of being complicit and you do get the very rare person who will try to blame any response to inappropriate behaviour on racism. I remind myself that how I feel in that regard is nothing compared to the experience of other races and we are all (all races but I guess historically more some races than others) complicit in a system that is not equal, not just in terms of racism but in perpetuating many other inequalities. It's sad but you can feel that them and us culture growing at the minute in the wake of austerity and Brexit. People spend so much time trying to figure out who to blame instead of putting their heads together and working on the problem. I think it is often the same with racism. P.s. I'm sorry about the experiences of your family.

Op, some people live in their own privileged bubble and therefore will never try to empathise or understand the plight of others.
One of my neighbours is Italian and has lived in England for a number of years. When the whole Brexit situation arose, she was terrified of being sent home to Italy.
I pointed out to her, that she had often made derogatory remarks about non EU citizens and their immigration plight. She always said things, such as send them back .
However, when there was a risk of her being sent back to Italy ,she soon changed her tune.
I am white, but I have seen racism against black people in everyday life.
Recently I saw a beautiful well dressed , probably professional black woman in Boots the chemist. The minute she walked in the security guard followed her around. She became aware of it and walked towards him to show him what she was buying. He hurried away from her, his face red with embarrassment.
This thread has proved the OPs point. How bloody depressing

My ex friend had agreed with her new boyfriend who was white that she would carry his class A,s because "if the police try and stop me I will pull the race card."

Er.... except a black person is more likely to be stopped in the first place and the police wouldn't give a shit about someone "playing the race card" (whatever the fuck that is meant to mean).

OP looks like you came to prove a point that a discussion could not take place and are actually just happy that your point has been proven.

People over here have been listening, discussing and in some cases offering alternate theories and anecdotes.

If you want to be heard you should take others views on board too.

I agree with what ellie just said above. As I said I am white wirh jewish heritage so its sometimes odd when people tell me i habe no idea what racism is like when i experience anti semiticism. I also treat everyone the way i would like to be treated and want equality as does all my family, friends and social circle so it can be frustrating to see "white people think this white people do/say/act like this." Or "i have given up speaking to white people about this." As if we are one mass being that all think they same. Some of us are open to learning and are not blind to how ethnic minorities are treated differently.

Calliope - I'm really sorry that this thread has just proved your point. I'm white, but I know enough to recognise my own privilege.

The ONLY times I have ever been stopped by police have been when with a group of black friends. And my white family and friends have never been targeted in the way you describe happening to your family.

All the people saying "oh but I know a white person who was searched once" are missing the point. This is once. It is again and again. It's similar to how MRAs will focus on isolated cases of false rape accusations or female on male violence. Yes, the odd woman does something reprehensible, but those cases are outnumber 100 to 1 by genuine rapes and men who are violent towards women.

^ This isn't once.

I think a lot of white people automatically feel defensive when BAME people talk about racism, which is not reasonable, but there you are. They don't personally see racism, they don't believe they or often their friends and family are racist, so they think 'It can't be that bad' and even if they don't say it I think quite often do think people must be 'playing the race card' when they complain about very real issues.

I'll admit to having been like that myself when I was younger, even though I always thought of myself as liberal and all for diversity, but have been trying to listen to people of colour, read stuff online and really take in that of course racism is not going to be as visible to me as it is to them and whether we 'take it personally' if they complain about white people is our problem to get over - not theirs to negotiate.

@perroy it's called a discussion. I'm taking on board peoples views. They disagree with my opinion. I disagree with theirs. I think I've done so pretty rationally have I not? Or should I roll over and say 'yes you're right end of discussion'?