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AIBU?

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Original poster

Can I call the police?

182 replies

scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 10:47

Really quick question. My ex is a complete fuckwit.

I have just handed over dc for contact, I stated a time and place for him to drop him off. I had a funny feeling he would not agree to it, so I recorded the handover, where I clearly state the time and place to which he needs to drop off, he agrees several times, then walks off with dc shouting 'see you at the time he wants'...

There is a huge backstory to all of this that I cannot go into for various reasons, but if he does not return her as he agreed to just before I handed over the dc, can I call the police? As you can imagine, his behaviour is completely unhinged and unreasonable, I need as much evidence as I can get. Or am I being ridiculous?

OP posts:
Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 11:38

Everything is done by email or text. I refuse to speak to him on the phone.

He has proved time and time again that he cannot look after dc, comes back with ridiculously weather inappropriate, wrong sized clothing, nappy rash and filthy among other things

I wish I could go into more detail to explain some of the things he has done but as I said, I can't.

His behaviour and treatment of me and dc have literally turned me into a nervous wreck. I live in fear of what eh will do next. And he's very good at playing the victim. I am sick and tired of his lies snd bullshit, and the very fact that he agreed to the time and place I said seconds before I handed her over just sums it up. Now I am genuinely scared and will not be able to rest until she is back with me. Whenever that may be.

I understand that the police may well just say it's not their issue, but my sol has told me to get as much evidence as possible, and the police liaison officer has told me to log every little thing...

OP posts:
SofieMonde · 01/07/2018 11:44

How much later did he say he would bring her back? A few hours/ days?

He is doing it to wind you up and not really wanting to spend time with DD right?

Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 11:47

He said 5 whereas I said 3. I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem like much but she is very young and he has spent hardly any time with her as it Iss (see rejected and cancelled contact). 7 hours is an extremely long time when she is so small and he cannot or will not look after even her basic needs properly.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 01/07/2018 11:47

If there is a contact order and/or residence order in place then you can report it once he is late or if there is any indication that he might cause them harm (e.g. turning up drunk when you know he'll be driving).

If there's no contact order but he has PR then they can't actually do anything.

Log everything (yourself, not with police) and take it back to solicitor if you're looking to show that the current order is not working.

I agree I think some PPs are misinformed - you cannot just demand supervised contact in any case, but especially not when there is already an unsupervised court order in place. Unfortunately in many cases yes a court order leaves you in an unfavourable position where you have to make the child available for contact but there's absolutely no comeback for the parent who is messing you and the child about. However, if there are stipulations like dates, times and places he's not sticking to this could be something which could be brought back.

Lastly although I know it's almost impossible, try to disengage emotionally from the whole process. He can only control you with this if you let him. It's supremely difficult when the baby is little and can't tell you what's going on but you do have to develop a thick skin and a laid back nature about what happens when she's with him unless there are solid concerns of serious danger. (Suspicions and hearsay aren't really enough for court anyway, so it might help your sanity to turn a blind eye to these things).

IME blokes like this who use contact as a form of control get bored once they realise it's not bothering you as much as they would hope and they will tend to move on to a new victim. If you react by digging your claws in and trying to wrestle control back, that's what they want and they will fight you to the end over it just to feel they have "won". If you essentially let them win with the minimum of fuss then they seem to feel less need to go extreme on their measures. They enjoy torturing you so let them think that you're not bothered and the fun will disappear, especially as looking after DC is actually quite hard work.

Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 11:47

And yes. He is doing it completely to wind me up. Unfortunately.

OP posts:
Yokatsu · 01/07/2018 11:50

If they are late back with no explanation, you can call to police as a welfare concern. They may then may contact with Dad (either phone or in person) and children to check children are ok. They won't do more than that. Be careful how you do this, as you can be made to look like you are creating a problems here there isn't one. At 15 mins late with no notice I would call and text and 20 mins no explanation I would give a 10 mins warning. I would get a reply at this point.

Also be careful with "stating" a time of return. It needs to be agreed. If you don't have written by him essentially something

I agree to this time return, don't drop off. Hes under no obligation to comply with demands and court would probably not consider it him messing you around if he hasn't agreed it. With the wrong lawyer it can be argued that you are being dictatorial. If I didn't get an agreement to times (I would consider drop off not agreed a
Unless time of return was agreed) I would send an " it's in everyone's but especially the children's, best interest times are agreed sensibly, no one knows what they are doing unless arrangements are made and adhered to . " (ie how can I know when to drop off if we can't agree times) I would copy and paste broken record style until times were agreed.

Court is unlike to stop or order supervised access if he currently has unsupervised and it is going "well" Hmm

Court is unlikely to be great protection against this. Most order state something like "and such contact that can be agreed between the two parents" I think and its amazing wgat the cput wont enforce given even a decidely questionable excuse why it didn't happen.

AjasLipstick · 01/07/2018 11:52

My friend lost her children like this. Her ex wouldn't bring them back and just kept them.

The police wouldn't do anything.

BertieBotts · 01/07/2018 11:52

If you have a PLO who has said log everything then yes log it - did they say how you should do this? As in just keep a record yourself or report on 101 or what?

GirlsBlouse17 · 01/07/2018 11:53

I know it won't be easy but try not to show any emotion when he returns with DC as a reaction is what he wants. Don't engage with him at all.

Speak to Citizens Advice soon about what options you may have and then a solicitor.

JustVent · 01/07/2018 11:54

How old is your daughter and what time did you drop her off?

HappyinShropshire · 01/07/2018 11:54

If the police liason officer says to log everything then that is what you do. The police keep logs of every call. You make it clear that you've been advised by the police liason officer to log everything. I really feel for you.

Yokatsu · 01/07/2018 11:54

Follow your PLO more than mine or anyone elses advice. I missed that

BertieBotts · 01/07/2018 11:54

Ajas, how is that helpful? OP there would be recourse in that situation but you would need legal advice. At the moment it looks unlikely to come to that.

81Byerley · 01/07/2018 11:55

Could you ask the solicitor about arranging contact at a contact centre?

Yummy274 · 01/07/2018 12:00

OP the only thing you can do I suppose is contact him and if he ignores you then call the police and explain that your afraid for the welfare of your child. They most probably won’t do anything as he has parental responsibility but they will have to log the call so you have some history there when and if you go to court, to help you in your case.

quizqueen · 01/07/2018 12:01

If you are afraid of him and he has been violent to you in the past, can you get a court order which stated your child has to be handed over by a trusted third party and that she needs to be returned at the time agreed for the contact to continue. You should not have to be forced to have contact with him yourself.

HappyinShropshire · 01/07/2018 12:01

AjasLipstick This is not a helpful comment when OP is worried sick already.

Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 12:02

There is no court order in place, although I am informed her will be taking me to court to arrange contact, I had another thread on that under a different name. Except he's been threatening it since March and nothing has come of it.

I completely understand not to make it look like I am being difficult or petty, but this is my baby, as well all know that means her wellbeing is my priority. No-one listens to my concerns which I find shocking.

PLO just said log it, whether that means with 101 or just myself I don't know. And obviously it's the weekend so can't seek advice from her or the solicitor.

I am sitting here crying tears of frustration at the whole bloody mess. I just cannot believe another human being can be so evil. Let alone not take the well being of his daughter into account...

He has me over a fucking barrel and he knows it, as I said, this is just yet another area of my life he gets to control with his bullshit, and it's just not fair.

So the fact that I have him on video agreeing to drop her off at 3 means nothing? He's very clever in the way that he refuses to write anything down.
And I know I shouldn't rise to it, as pp's have rightly pointed out, that is what he wants. But it's so hard when he is completely destroying my life..

OP posts:
Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 12:03

Contact centres cost £££ which is out of the question when I am on SMP and he contributes zero to her. Dodged the CMS by claiming he is uneomployed and on benefits, yet more bullshit but it's difficult to prove... plus he won't agree to it.

OP posts:
Doyoumind · 01/07/2018 12:05

OP I can imagine how you are feeling. I have gone through the stress of handing over a young child to a man who had abused me and who I did not have any confidence in.

I agree with PP who said people really have no idea how the system works though.

I think you need to get a court order in place even if that means self representing. Until then contact must not be ad hoc. All details must be agreed by both parties in writing before they take place. The court order also needs to be as detailed as possible otherwise he will play this control game for a long time.

Juells · 01/07/2018 12:07

I wouldn't make a fuss if he's agreed to drop her back at 3, and doesn't drop her back until 5. Pretend you don't care, or that you had a chance to do something else. I'd let him think that you see the time he has her as your 'freedom'. If you're meeting in a shopping mall or somewhere like that, and he keeps you waiting for two hours, make sure you're all relaxed and sunbathing and/or watching a video on your phone, anything other than sitting chewing your nails.

AtomicGlitterBomb · 01/07/2018 12:08

Without a residency/contact order he has just as much right to keep her as you do,
the default is parental responsibility = 50/50 rights, the only way to change that is with is with court ordered residency and a contact order.

You can not be forced to hand the child over without a contact order in place, although it won’t look good on your part if you withhold contact completely (when it does go to court) but as long as you make the child available for contact, even in a contact centre or supervised, it can’t be used against you.

Get to court first thing tomorrow, use this as an example that you need an order in place.

And when he drops her off don’t say anything, don’t rise to his games, you know he is only doing it to get at you so act as though 5 was the agreed time and say nothing.
If his game doesn’t get the reaction he wanted he might not bother doing it again.

Tara12 · 01/07/2018 12:08

Hugs honey. Please contact Women's Aid who will advise you. Make sure you ring the UK one and jus wait and wait for an advisor. Well worth some professional advice x

Original poster
scoobydoobydooo · 01/07/2018 12:08

Well again, that's the point. I have no idea where I am supposed to pick her up from. He walked off shouting see you st five. Clearly that means he is not going to drop her where I've asked him to, because I won't be there at that time!!!!!!

What do I do? Obviously he won't reply to a text or an email...

OP posts:
QueenB14 · 01/07/2018 12:09

Ok, if it comes to it....

Ages ago my sisters ex refused to hand over my niece. She stood outside his house and phoned the police. Police arrived and said they cant take my niece from her dads house but they persuaded him to let her in to make sure she was ok as she said she was concerned etc. My sister picked up my niece and walked out.

Don't think the police were too happy with her doing it like that but technically she didn't break any laws

Hope your DD is back with you soon this is literally my worst nightmare

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