AIBU to tell my ‘son’ to fuck off?

[whateveryousay]

I am so mad, and so hurt that I’ll happily admit I’m not thinking straight, so please tell me AIBU here??

So 2.5years ago, my then 14 yo DD decided that actually, they were a boy. 2 years ago, they socially transitioned, and have lived as a boy since then.

I have always been fully supportive, in that I’ve gone to every CAMHS appt, trailed along to the Tavistock regularly, sorted everything out at school (who have been great), and done my very best for my now DS, I feel, while also being absolutely devastated, and grieving the loss of my perfect daughter.

So, imagine my joy when yesterday he announced that he wanted to go back to being a girl! I can’t explain the feeling, I mean no disrespect here to anyone who has properly lost a child, but I felt like I was being given a glimpse of my ‘dead’ daughter, and a promise that I would see her again soon.

We had a lengthy heart to heart, which was lovely, and he asked me to email the school to set up a meeting about going back to 6th form in September as a girl. We discussed different ‘looks’ he could have as a girl, and planned a shopping trip for clothes for tomorrow. We agreed it would be best to see out the rest of the school year as a boy, but we’d change name and pronouns back again ‘soon’. He did ask me not to tell anyone else for now, as he wanted to do this in his own time.

So today I have been skipping about at work, feeling like a new person, so light and happy, and thinking of our shopping trip tomorrow, and that at last this nightmare is over. Only to get home and be told he may have changed his mind again. He’ll let me know after the weekend.

So, AIBU to think that this is beyond cruel, and tell him to fuck off? I can’t look at him, I just want my daughter back, and I know she’s in there somewhere, because I saw her yesterday.

DS is 16 now.

I just want him out of my house, and my daughter back.

We had another ‘heart to heart’ late last night, and, to summarise, DS says he was only wanting to de-transition to please me, but doesn’t actually feel he can go through with it.

So now I’m very conflicted. I don’t think I’ve ever been outwardly supportive of de-transitioning, I’ve never suggested it ever. But of course that is what I do wish for, and so DS could well have perceived this. But what if this is just an excuse, as the thought of de-transitioning is too scary?

I really don’t know what to do for the best now. Keep pushing the de-transition, as that’s ehat he wants but is too scared?? Or would this be harmful?

For now I will take the advice of pps, and I’ve more or less said ‘ok, whatever you want’. Worried I’m doing wrong in the long-run though 😞

Thank you for posting helpful links, I have gone through them all, and there are resources out there. I just need to work out which ones are best to use.

whateveryousay

Has he started, or showed interest in, medically transitioning? He's only 16 and I'm sure you can remember when you were 16 and how you hated your body and wanted to fit in. Keep an eye on him, join some of the Twitter parents in your dame situation and try to let him work through it on his own.

Assure him that you love him however he chooses to live and that you support him 100% if he wants to be mick or Mary.

You also need support and I would advise you read some of the critical material posted here so that you can get info other than the pc agenda tavistock or mermaids which, IMHO, try to guilt parents. You are also going through this roller coaster and need support, help and a shoulder to cry on and support you.

If your son isn't currently seeing a counsellor it might be an idea to find one - who is impartial and will help him work through his feelings. He may wish to progress to medicalised transition, or it may be that he decides that the traditional gender stereotypes are what he's struggling with.

One thing I would strongly recommend is to avoid organisations like Mermaids. I am sure that they are very supportive of families where a child is determined to pursue transition, but their behaviour when presented with a child who is questioning and unsure may not be as impartial and supportive as you would want (court case details where the organisation was banned from contacting a child here)

Amalfimamma

He was put forward by the Tavistock for hormone blockers, and we went through all of the tests at UCLH, only for him to decide, on balance, that he would manage without. His reasoning was that post-puberty, they weren’t going to do that much for him, and that there wasn’t enough research about the long-term effects, given the level of success that he could hope to achieve by taking them.

I thought this was a mature, and sensible decision, and was so glad he made it. He did say though that once he was referred to adult services, in a years time, that he would be looking to press on with testosterone, and medically transitioning.

I did feel like UCLH were pushing the blockers, but I actually felt like the representative from the Tavistock was more balanced.

I have just over a year before DS does something potentially irreversible.

I wouldn't "push" for anything except to encourage your son to have a think about why he feels the way he does.

Anecdotal evidence suggests so far that a child who shows clear signs of gender dysphoria is not likely to change their minds as an adult, whereas a child who only presents as trans during their teen years is likely to return to living as their biological sex once they've reached adulthood.

Support, don't judge, be as impartial as you can but make sure that you gently challenge any incorrect information or misconceptions. For example I have a real issue with "boys things" and "girls things". Liking pretty things and being sensitive and creative doesn't make you a girl.
Enjoying mechanics and engineering, not being a heart on your sleeve type and not using cosmetics doesn't make you a boy either. There are lots of women who wear "men's" clothing, don't wear make-up, kick against gender roles and are fabulous, funny, warm and amazing people who are happy with their bodies and reject the stereotype that tits and a vadge means that you must be delicate and feminine. I'm currently wearing a pair of men's shorts from Tesco (because I wanted dark coloured plain cotton, not polyester lace and sparkles). Later on I am about to fire up my chainsaw and get to it in the garden - my DH will be doing the ironing!

Teen years are a real struggle for identity anyway and it's so common for girls to kick against the stereotypes which suddenly come into sharp relief - unwanted attention from males as a result of your changing body, sexist comments and expectations, feeling constrained or limited because of what you perceive society to want of you...

If your son decides that they want to stay presenting as a boy then that's fine. If they decide that they want to de-transition then that's also fine. I would encourage him to think of being non-gender specific at the moment if he is confused. He's a person and you will love him regardless of his decision.

One thing I would strongly recommend though, is to resist and avoid any kind of medical change - no chest binders, no drugs, no hormones. These can have permanent and irreversible effects and if he's currently questioning then it's vital that he doesn't undergo any treatment which cannot be undone if he changes his mind later. If it comes up in conversation then I would offer an agreement that when he reaches 18 and still wants to pursue a medical transition, then you will support this.

Sorry that should have said a child from a young age who presents with clear signs of gender dysphoria.

whateveryousay

That was a very mature and responsible course of action on behalf of your child. As
ResistanceIsNecessary has said i would look for an impartial counselor who can help your child work through his confusion. And seeing as he is so mature and knows about the lack of testing and studies etc it might help him finally find some peace. One way or another.

I feel for you op I really do, you're between a rock and a hard place and as you've said feel terrible guilt for this situation. I also think, and please don't be offended, that you too need counseling and support irl for what you're feeling as it's a terrible situation and putting unlimited stress and pressure on you as a mother and human being.

Oh and one more thing -

The original conversation contained a request that you'd contact the school to make arrangements for de-transitioning. That's a pretty big thing to ask you to do, for someone who now says that they have only considered this to please you.

I think your son is genuinely conflicted. They've had a significant and dramatic social change over the last two years, which has been supported by family, friends and school. There is currently a lot of support for trans identified children, but as a PP has already said there is virtually nothing out there for children who think they may have changed their minds.

It sounds to me as if there is a chance your son is wondering about this but there's a very real possibility that he's worried about a backlash and negative reactions if he de-transitions. If possible I'd advise you to encourage him to limit social media and spend more time with family and in activities - and less time looking and researching trans issues. This is not to try and stop him thinking about it, but more aimed at giving him the chance to realise that your body and sex does not have to limit you and that it is only a small part of who he - or she - is. It's also to give him the chance to come to his own decision without being swayed by emotive or misguided attempts to push a particular agenda.

Hey OP
I have not taken any offence and I think you were very fraught when you posted

I think right now you need to take a step back from discussions and decisions . Focus on yourself and your well being .

Your child has a few more roller coaster dips to come and you need to be strong and resilient . I don’t mean stop supporting your child but maybe focus on issues not gender tradition related for a few days and just experience loving motherhood . That sounds so cheesy but I know when I am stressed being loving and doing things that make me happy / well it works x

It’s hard

I’m so relieved to hear that your son decided against GnrH analogues. I took the same sort of drug in my mid 20s, completely unaware of the potential impact on the rest of my life. As it turns out, the impact has been extremely negative and has caused endless problems for the decade since I stopped them.

Since then I’ve learned how much your honone levels affect almost everything you can think of. I find it very concerning that cross sex hormones are generally seen as pretty harmless and the only impact will be desired physical changes. A body’s hormones are carefully balanced, each person has different levels and even a tiny shift can have horrendous knock on effects for the body’s functions. It’s complete arrogance on the part of medical professionals to think they can chuck hormones at a human body and have it work properly. Most women, those who’ve taken hormonal contraception and many who’ve taken HRT, can attest to this.

I think it’s a disgrace that the desistance rate is so high and yet there’s no real support for those those choose this path. Makes it pretty clear to me what the agenda is here.

Of course you are dear smile whatever fits your agenda don't worry I see you too. @LadyDeadpool

Oh the absolute irony of that remark.

She was everyone's "cute trans friend", now she'll just be some boring girl.

This really struck a chord with my experience as a parent of a girl (16). The 'cute trans' is a whole online and real life community (in DD's case linked with anime). The idea of being a plain old female is too impossibly vanilla to contemplate. She would not feel able to be part of this group if she was not 'gender-fluid'.

I feel for you OP - it is so much more than pronouns and toilets.

Well I think the only thing you can do is to continue to support him and say that there is no pressure- you just want him to be happy and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with changing his mind again in the future- it’s all about what he is happiest with. It’s also reassuring that he is not taking hormones and I would advise against it and of making permanent changes to his body.

It is really sad though because I bet that 20 years ago, your child would probably l just have been a butch woman without questioning whether she was actually a man. It sounds like you have been wonderfully supportive though so he is lucky to have someone like you.

This is a fascinating interview with a de-transitioned teenager.
4thwavenow.com/2017/11/07/a-teen-desister-tells-her-story/

Other interesting articles;
4thwavenow.com/?s=detransition&submit=Search

And I really agree with this advice from a PP, - there will definitely be peer pressure from friends, who won't want him to go back to his female self. If your son is questioning the "rightness" of his feelings, what does that say about theirs....

It sounds to me as if there is a chance your son is wondering about this but there's a very real possibility that he's worried about a backlash and negative reactions if he de-transitions. If possible I'd advise you to encourage him to limit social media and spend more time with family and in activities - and less time looking and researching trans issues. This is not to try and stop him thinking about it, but more aimed at giving him the chance to realise that your body and sex does not have to limit you and that it is only a small part of who he - or she - is. It's also to give him the chance to come to his own decision without being swayed by emotive or misguided attempts to push a particular agenda.

SuitedandBooted

That is a really good, interesting article, thank you.

Does anyone have any advice re showing this interviews to DS?? I am going to do nothing this weekend, just let things be, but do you think it’s a good idea to show him interviews like this, or will it be seen as ‘coercion to de-transition’?

I do see a psychologist monthly, to support me to support DS. Maybe this is a question for when I next see her.

I think given tour DC has read lots of other stuff of other types about the issue, it would be helpful. It's not pressure to detransition so much as showing that other people have been through it and there might be other ways to lok at the whole thing.

I have a sibling who calls themself trans non-binary and who lives in a world of mutual re-affirmation and transactivism - yet even I was shocked to read in that article about just how "fashionable" it is in some circles and how being cis is seen as uncool. That shows how much pressure there is. And I think the interview is very good at explaining how easy it is for totally normal teenage feelings of alienation and alarm about one's own body to end up being interpreted as trans, in this milieu, when they are often probably just temporary confusion and discomfort.

I think it would help your teen to understand how common it is to be confused, to experiment and to take time to settle into "who you are", as a teenager and also up to about 25 IME. I was a teen in the 80s when it was newly cool to be gay. So many people I knew were gay, until they eventually weren't because it wasn't really them. Of course a few were really gay, but the massive difference with the trans thing is the damage that can be done to confused young people by medical intervention and to a lesser degree, by plumping for a trans identity and then facing the difficulties of backtracking.

Hi OP. Could you take her camping for the weekend? Have you read "promiscuities" by Naomi Wolf? I did in my twenties and it changed my life - it's very hetero focused but has a lovely suggestion about teenagers being initiated into womanhood with their mum and other brilliant older women around a campfire. You sound like you're a great mum.

I think it might be helpful to just begin, at this stage, by pointing out that detransitioning is very common. DC may not know this - the online trans community is careful to hide it, and is absolutely vitriolic towards anyone who does. This may well have been the problem here. DC told you, then 'confessed' online that she had done so. At which point, the backlash would have been swift and painful. As @bandito pointed out, girls aren't cool. Other PPs have echoed this from their own, adult lives, saying that being seen as male is to be seen as human, whereas to be female is to be 'less-than'.

She would like to to the normal, usual thing, and live in her birth gender. However, to do this, she is going to have to run a gauntlet of people who feel she has let them down, or caved in, or is just boring trash. She's going from a "strong" and "brave" and "inspiring" cute-trans-guy to a stupid, boring girl. She has been immersed in a high octane community, where she was special and important, for some time now. If she detrans, they will turn on her. She knows that, and it's scary. She's going to not only lose those people, but they may actively hound her. She needs to replace that community, so you finding out about other detransitioning girls is important. When she's ready, you can start suggesting people to follow on Twitter, websites/communities she can visit, etc. But this is all going to be very painful for her.

whateveryousay

rancid - you make a good point and one I will remember - thing is, the term ‘deadnaming’ is big in the transrights world, so some trans activists do consider their former selves to be dead, metaphorically at least.
An emotional parent who has spent two years immersed in the language of transrights, trying not to upset their DC, is likely to have internalised these arguments...

Therefore, you make a very good point for the abolition of the use of the term ‘deadnaming’ in all contexts.

(Much love to all those suffering the indescribable pain of bereavement who have happened across this post - ‘Grief is the price we pay for love’ xx)

I'm not sure if anyone else has yet posted this link to resources on detransitioners, including a survey which, while it doesn't rise to the standards of scientific proof, is illuminating - and disturbing. it's girls and very young women who are changing their minds, and yet cross sex hormones are more quickly and more seriously damaging to girls.

whateveryousay

I was just sitting here thinking about you and your son and I realise I have a Twitter friend who went through this herself, including taking testosterone etc and is now detranistioned. 8f you're 9n Twitter 8d be more than happy to send you her @ so you can follow her and read her story.

Amalfimamma

Yes please, I do have Twitter, if you could send me her @?

I’ve been looking at the Feminism boards for the first time, and I think I’ll spend more time there. Most helpful.

I know this must be very hard for you but ultimately he or she is your child. You sound like a very supportive and loving mum, don’t fall at this fence.

I hope to god this has all fucked off and blown over in the next 12 years while my son grows up.

We had another ‘heart to heart’ late last night, and, to summarise, DS says he was only wanting to de-transition to please me, but doesn’t actually feel he can go through with it.

I think your priority should be to tell him he doesn't have to do anything - transition/detransition/live as a "girl"/live as a "boy" He can just simply be himself for the next number of years. Use whatever pronouns he wants, wear whatever clothes he wants. Focus maybe on other things like academics of other things.

If you get him to 20 or so without medical intervention, then he still has lots of choices available and hasn't ruled out anything.

For many trans teens, the trans thing is a language - explaining why they feel uncomfortable in their skin/lives/school etc.