AIBU to tell my ‘son’ to fuck off?

[whateveryousay]

I am so mad, and so hurt that I’ll happily admit I’m not thinking straight, so please tell me AIBU here??

So 2.5years ago, my then 14 yo DD decided that actually, they were a boy. 2 years ago, they socially transitioned, and have lived as a boy since then.

I have always been fully supportive, in that I’ve gone to every CAMHS appt, trailed along to the Tavistock regularly, sorted everything out at school (who have been great), and done my very best for my now DS, I feel, while also being absolutely devastated, and grieving the loss of my perfect daughter.

So, imagine my joy when yesterday he announced that he wanted to go back to being a girl! I can’t explain the feeling, I mean no disrespect here to anyone who has properly lost a child, but I felt like I was being given a glimpse of my ‘dead’ daughter, and a promise that I would see her again soon.

We had a lengthy heart to heart, which was lovely, and he asked me to email the school to set up a meeting about going back to 6th form in September as a girl. We discussed different ‘looks’ he could have as a girl, and planned a shopping trip for clothes for tomorrow. We agreed it would be best to see out the rest of the school year as a boy, but we’d change name and pronouns back again ‘soon’. He did ask me not to tell anyone else for now, as he wanted to do this in his own time.

So today I have been skipping about at work, feeling like a new person, so light and happy, and thinking of our shopping trip tomorrow, and that at last this nightmare is over. Only to get home and be told he may have changed his mind again. He’ll let me know after the weekend.

So, AIBU to think that this is beyond cruel, and tell him to fuck off? I can’t look at him, I just want my daughter back, and I know she’s in there somewhere, because I saw her yesterday.

DS is 16 now.

I just want him out of my house, and my daughter back.

LadyDeadpool I genuinely have no idea what you're on about. My point was - and remains - that it's unhelpful and irresponsible to quote inaccurate statistics to a parent who is frightened about their child's mental health.

You seem convinced that I need to be chastised for things that you think I mean, when I have actually said nothing of the sort. I'm not going to engage in this any further because it's derailing the OP's thread which is unfair and inappropriate.

Biology isn't imaginary

Amalfimamma!

Whateveryousay - pay no mind to the TRA types - they don’t like desistors/detransitioners because it ruins their own narratives.

Best of luck to your DC, and I have full faith that you will love them regardless, it’s just a bit headfuckery while they are wavering.

There are always sympathetic ears on the Feminist chat board, so pop on over whenever (there are enough of us to drown out the unhelpful comments).

My phone appears to have a mind of its own 🤔

OP, a lot of the kids in my dd's high school identified as something other than the sex they were born with over the years.

I notice most of them identified as gender neutral - so picked a fairly neutral name, asked for people to use "they/them" as pronouns and rocked on. Clothes weren't an issue because the school's only dress code was "don't make others uncomfortable". result was most dressed for comfort in a fairly non-gendered way.

I guess what I am saying is maybe your child needs to become more neutral for a while - he/she doesn't have to commit to anything right now. Is that possible in his school? My own anecdotal observation is that most of these kids were using the gender/trans thing to navigate how they felt about being a teen/dealing with anxiety or depression/exploring the limits of their identity and individuality. By the time it got to graduation, nearly everyone had figured themselves out (the graduation outfits were fairly eclectic though!)

LadyDeadpool
I've already asked you once to not @ me. I find it threatening and it overstep boundaries that I deem polite and respectful.

You don't know how to debate, you throw accusations around like necklaces at mardi gra in new Orleans and you insult whomever doesn't pat you on the head and say " good boy lady, good boy".

Please do not interact with me again as you have proven yourself to be a dishonest, homophobic, racist, MRA liar in more than one thread.

amalfimamma thank you, I really appreciate that, and saucepotty thank you for saying what I was trying to say so much better than I did!

Also, I'm rather confused as to why LadyDeadpool is accusing Amalfimamma of being the type of person who would be scared of black and gay people. When I say confused, I mean in a WTAF way. Seriously, not accepting stats that seem pretty damn wrong to most people doesn't make someone a terf, a racist, or a homophobe! Given Almafi's posts here I'd say the opposite is true.

Find him a therapist unrelated to the Tavistock/mermaids etc.

Then let him decide in his own time.

LadyDeadpool Do you actually read these studies? Or at least the American one in particular? And all of the study, not just the headline figures or press release?

Because if you did, it can't have escaped your notice that the authors of your quoted study themselves emphasise the limitations of their method in four rather important caveats.

1. The survey did not follow up with respondents who answered yes to the question if they had ever attempted suicide in their lifetime. This deviates from best practice in suicide and suicidality research as researchers have found that people with MH issues frequently answer yes to this question as a cry of help or because they are self-harming or feeling suicidal now and not because they had indeed attempted suicide previously. This figure in best practice studies has been found to be about 50% of those who answer with yes.

2. The survey did not establish whether respondents had pre- or co-existing MH issues. The suicide attempt rate of people suffering from depression for instance is very high, and this survey made no attempt to find out why respondents may have attempted suicide. The authors therefore acknowledge they cannot say whether respondents did so because they are trans and/or because of their life history of traumatic events and/or MH issues that are unrelated to being trans.

3. The survey does not equalise for the bias of self-selecting respondents (i.e. people who had negative experiences are typically more motivated to respond to this type of survey while those without them don't). The authors therefore acknowledge that suicidal respondents may be overrepresented within their survey.

4. The survey did not attempt to establish whether the suicide attempt preceded respondents identifying as trans. This would have helped to distinguish between suicidality caused by unrelated issues and by identifying as trans and/or being bullied/rejected for being trans. The authors also emphasise that empirically suicide attempt rates do not translate into suicides, i.e. those groups with high suicidality are not necessarily the ones to actually commit suicide. (There are 100 attempts for every suicide among teens for instance but only four attempts for every suicide among the elderly).

The authors therefore conclude: ^in the absence of supporting
data, we should be especially careful not to extrapolate
findings about suicide attempts among transgender
adults to imply conclusions about completed suicide in
this population.^

(The authors then go on to be completely alarmist anyway, making all of the pronouncements their methodoloy discussion painstakingly explains they shouldn't be making. Why they do so is anyone's guess.)

My apologies to the OP for going off topic. I find this emotional blackmail of vulnerable children and their parents abhorrent and am not willing to let it stand in such a thread.

Yes, there is about an 80% co-morbidity of mental health issues among those diagnosed with gender dysphoria, but it is unconscionable to suggest that unless a parent affirms their child's transgender identity the child will commit suicide. There is exactly zero evidence that this is true. None. But these threats can and do enormous harm to already vulnerable children and their families.

He just says today that he ‘likes being taken for a boy’, and ‘likes it when people treat him as a boy’

This doesn’t surprise me at all - males are treated so differently to females. I’d love to be treated by the world in the same way my DH is. It’s not going to happen though. I can understand why this seems like an appealing option especially if there are other factors. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that so many young girls are transitioning at the moment.

Ravenesque

If I'm wrong I admit it. I don't like disloyal debate or disloyal opponents in a debate.

Ladydeadpool has an agenda. It's clear from this thread and all her posts on the subject matter. There is no debate to be had with the poster as they refuse to debate and wish to shut down all dissent with insults and assumptions made (and proven wrong).

CharlieParley

Thank you for posting that but she'll be along soon to dismiss it and to call you 100 names for daring questioner tea mandated agenda.

You are utterly, utterly BU to use the terms of bereavement in your OP.

I take it you haven't read the heartfelt thread, started by one of the bereaved mothers on MN, and garnering so much support about how utterly tasteless that is. And your faux apology for use I got it doesn't cut it.

You have not idea what it is like to have a dead child

Yours is growing up in ways you are finding difficult.

At least they are growing up.

Being a teenager is so hard. This child is clearly struggling with who they are and what to do. An attitude like dinosaurandtea’s is so unsympathetic and cold - this child isn’t allowed to question anymore, the girl is ‘imaginary’, this young person is frozen in this identity forever now and not allowed to deviate because dinosaur’s rigid thinking doesn’t allowed for de transitioning. It must take so much strength and bravery to say that you were wrong, especially as a teenager in the midst of such very polarised and angry attitudes all around this area. Transgenderism is suddenly very much in the public eye and of course young people are going to get caught up in it. How does it help a vulnerable teen - who according to TRAs may well be at heightened risk of suicide - and deny their identity by refusing to entertain the possibility of desistance or fluidity?

I’m also very interested to know LadyDeadpool’s opinion of the disclaimers CharlieParley pointed out in that study.

You're the type who would have been scared of black people and gays stealing your rights too. How utterly pathetic
as a black person I find this highly offensive and am tired of fucking trans people trying to hitch their wagon to our cause cutting your dick off is your choice wearing making and trying to squeeze into a dress even though you still look masculine is your choice calling your self pairs or Gigi
Of what even pole dancer type name you think a women should be called is your choicebeing black is not a choice it’s somthing that I am and to be honest the fact that middle class white men are shouting what about me is nothing new and black people trust me and not fucking happy trans people in the U.K. represent what 1% of the population all this shows is stright white men are yet agin more of a priority than anyone else

Huge sympathy to you op, and huge sympathy to your dc.

I can certainly see that detransitioning must be a way scarier prospect for a teen than transitioning. On first transitioning there is a vocal welcoming community of affirmation. There's no such welcome waiting for detransitioners.

Might it help your DC to identify as "non-binary" for the remainder of secondary school, and to dress in a deliberately gender-neutral way and use a gender-neutral nickname. That might create a more comfortable way to explore feelings and identity ready to perhaps work out more about themselves as they mature?

Rancid, thank you for posting.

No, I haven’t read that thread, and I’m not going to, as I’m feeling way to vulnerable and upset already.

However, you make a very good point. No matter how upset I am about my situation, yes, at least my son is growing up, and for that I am truly thankful. I will keep in mind that no matter how miserable I think things are for me, there are always others in a worse situation.

I doubt, from the tone of your post, that it will mean anything to you, but fwiw I am genuinely sorry if I have caused upset to anyone who is grieving the loss of a child.

OP I hope you are OK. Hopefully you can have a calm weekend and your child will carry on talking to you. It's great and very positive that the lines of communication are open.

Might be worth posting in teenagers as lots of the posters there are very supportive. As you've no doubt identified already through your experiences over the last couple of years, trans issues do attract high feelings and passionate arguments (on both sides), whereas what you need at the moment is a safe place to vent and express your feelings without being judged.