AIBU to tell my ‘son’ to fuck off?

[whateveryousay]

I am so mad, and so hurt that I’ll happily admit I’m not thinking straight, so please tell me AIBU here??

So 2.5years ago, my then 14 yo DD decided that actually, they were a boy. 2 years ago, they socially transitioned, and have lived as a boy since then.

I have always been fully supportive, in that I’ve gone to every CAMHS appt, trailed along to the Tavistock regularly, sorted everything out at school (who have been great), and done my very best for my now DS, I feel, while also being absolutely devastated, and grieving the loss of my perfect daughter.

So, imagine my joy when yesterday he announced that he wanted to go back to being a girl! I can’t explain the feeling, I mean no disrespect here to anyone who has properly lost a child, but I felt like I was being given a glimpse of my ‘dead’ daughter, and a promise that I would see her again soon.

We had a lengthy heart to heart, which was lovely, and he asked me to email the school to set up a meeting about going back to 6th form in September as a girl. We discussed different ‘looks’ he could have as a girl, and planned a shopping trip for clothes for tomorrow. We agreed it would be best to see out the rest of the school year as a boy, but we’d change name and pronouns back again ‘soon’. He did ask me not to tell anyone else for now, as he wanted to do this in his own time.

So today I have been skipping about at work, feeling like a new person, so light and happy, and thinking of our shopping trip tomorrow, and that at last this nightmare is over. Only to get home and be told he may have changed his mind again. He’ll let me know after the weekend.

So, AIBU to think that this is beyond cruel, and tell him to fuck off? I can’t look at him, I just want my daughter back, and I know she’s in there somewhere, because I saw her yesterday.

DS is 16 now.

I just want him out of my house, and my daughter back.

I see they used the rare research for the 49% in the Uk.

A study that has been debunked as it was based on only 27 transgender ppl under 25 were interviewed.

Hope that you've found some support from this thread OP? Teenagers are so vulnerable and easy to influence - we all were but nowadays they are making decisions that can have life long implications. Take it at your child's pace - the very fact that he has raised it with you after going through everything in terms of transitioning is critical.
I suspect that de - transitioning will be a similar journey - a gradual coming to terms with biological reality rather than an immediate turn around? Maybe the summer holidays are a good time for some space - especially if there's plenty to do - rather than being hooked online?

LadyDeadpool that statistic applies to India - where homosexuality is still frowned upon and highly contentious. Whilst the study refers to trans people the methodology states that conclusions have been drawn, in part, from "sexual minorities". Therefore it's likely that the concluding figures may include gay and lesbian people living in India.

It refers to a UK statistic, which is based upon a report issued by PACE. When reviewing the PACE report, it becomes apparent that the statistics within specifically include gay and lesbian people - not just trans people. Therefore the Indian study which draws a conclusion of a high attempted suicide rate for trans people within the UK is not factually correct, as this number is not specific to trans people only.

This is not to dispute that trans people suffer discrimination, mental health issues and are consequently a vulnerable group. It is to dispute however, a common and inaccurate argument that they have a significantly higher suicide risk. I don't think it's helpful for parents of potentially trans-identified children - suggesting, as it does, that if you don't whole-heartedly support your child's desire to transition, then they will kill themselves.

completing a suicide does not mean you are in more pain than someone who attempts but doesn't complete, does it?

Not at all.

However the poster originally quoted said this:

Trans people have a higher rate of suicide

Ignoring how irresponsible it is to use suicide as a weapon in this way for a second, clearly this cannot be true because there wouldn't be any transsexuals left.

It was another poster who then started talking about suicide attempts despite the fact we weren't discussing the rate of suicide attempts.

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/ This is a blog post looking at the research in detail.

Ravenesque

Suicide/murder rate for trans people. Yes it is higher

As for murder rates, in 2015 295 trans ppl were murdered worldwide. Over 60% were sex workers in Central and Southern America.

In 2015 only un the usa 1450 women were murdered by a male they knew.

Again, statistics and truth matters.

I believe trans people have a higher incidence of mental illness than the rest of the population, so they might have a higher tendency towards suicidal thoughts. But the problem is that people use that fact to make a spurious claim that if people weren't so mean to trans people, they would be happy and would not suffer mental illness.

That is not true. Being trans is very complex. If you have such a deep hatred of your body and your sense of self, you're probably also going to be quite prone to depressive episodes and illnesses. It's not exactly a far leap. The very state of being trans is being very deeply unhappy with who you are and how you were born. Is it really some huge revelation then that trans people tend to have MH issues? It's a stupid thing to throw at parents because what else can they do? Even if they are supportive as anything, it's unlikely their child will magically become happy with their body (and no, I don't think surgery or hormones will lead to happiness either).

@PlantsArePeopleToo a weapon? What? it’s just a fact. Probably because they don’t feel accepted and feel pushed away. Sorry if you don’t like facts but they can’t be changed. Be kind.

But why the sad face emoji when your DC said that they prefer it when they are treated as a boy?

I am female (fairly obviously so in that I have large breasts and long hair but ALWAYS wear trousers at work and cover up), and am fairly senior in a male dominated industry

My proudest day was when they were asking me to get a flight to the Middle East and they asked my to get the same flight as a female employee so that she would have someone to look after her.

When I pointed out that I am female 9" smaller than her and they send me all over the shop on my own (even Iraq 15 years ago!!!) they stopped in the tracks and then said "but we don't think of you as a woman"

That was a day I was truly happy. I wasn't just a girl seen as pathetic by men, I was a competent individual who could be treated as a PERSON!

Yeah, I am with your DC, I like it best when treated as a man. In fact I am then being treated as a person which is a really bad indictment of the world in which we live.

My appearance and body doesn't dictate my sexuality or competence (it's nobody's business) and it doesn't mean that I am anything but me

That's really the message for your DC in my opinion. Be themselves, be fluid, do your own thing so long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Wear pink, purple, a dress, a pair of shorts, a sarong, a tiara, grow a beard, shave your eyebrows off and wear DMs. Go out with boys or girls so long as they are nice people. Who cares!!!
People will accept most things as long as they know the person is being 'real' and it will get more respect

And a toilet is a toilet- it means absolutely sod all difference which ones you use (although the ladies don't smell as bad but there's a queue )

Everyone still seems so hung up on boy/girl stereotypes when nothing is black or white.

For goodness sake spend time helping your DC accept themselves as who they are not stressing about labels!!!!

it’s just a fact.

No it's not a fact.

By repeating the lie that trans people are more likely to commit suicide you are doing nothing more than scaremongering parents who already have enough shit to deal with.

@ResistanceIsNecessary

If you actually read it you'll notice that it talks about the USA as well among other places.

Or how about this one williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents
to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey
(NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian
Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality,
is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of
the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide
attempt, and is also higher than the 10-20 percent
of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever
attempting suicide

I think the scholarly articles and studies probably beat out a random blog I just can't understand the hatred that must be behind your desperate need to say things aren't as bad as they are. Would you have said the same during the persecution of gay people? Because that's exactly what this is just with a new section of the populace to take the place of the gay population.

@LadyDeadpool

Again, I am not talking about suicide attempts. Are you being deliberately dense?

Quite frankly I don't give a crap if you think I'm transphobic. It has become a meaningless word now and nobody takes it seriously any more. So well done .

Your correct they have higher Rates of killing themsleves
Because pretending to be somone you can never be is a MH issue like it or not

As some people who regret transitioning have pointed out, the high rate of MH issues and suicide attempts may not be because of being trans, it may be the other way round. It could be that people with a sense of alienation, not feeling that they fit in or are accepted, and suffering MH problems, are increasingly likely to be drawn to the idea that those feelings are because they're in the wrong body, because this is an increasingly acceptable idea and has a lot of publicity at the moment. Plus it gives them an instant identity and group to belong to.

It's only after transitioning that some people say they realise that wasn't their problem after all, and they're still left with the bad feelings.

I think OP's teenager is probably having a big muddle of feelings that are exacerbated by trans being such a big thing at the moment. It would really upset me as well as a parent, but I think you have to try to keep giving them the message that you're there to listen and support, hard as it is.

LadyDeadpool I actually don't dispute the high suicide rate. But why do you think it's due to unsupportive parents?

If I had a condition where I felt my body was so repulsive that I could not live in it unless I had it drastically altered, often through quite dangerous medical procedures, would you expect me to be totally mentally stable and happy? I know someone who has recently come out as trans. Said person has attempted suicide a few times in the past and has already suffered depression, hallucinations and eating disorders. That is surely not through bullying or lack of support because it is only recently that this person has decided that they are trans and would be happier living as the opposite sex.

YANBU to feel that way, but would be to express it.
It cannot be a walk in the park to try and understand someone who doesn't yet understand themselves.

The sooner people start seeing Transgenderism for what what it is, a deeply unfortunate mental illness, the better.

I have no advice or anything helpful, but just want to say good luck. Teens can be hard work, and do constantly search for their own essential 'me' and it's tough. I hope you and your child both find peace.

I just can't understand the hatred that must be behind your desperate need to say things aren't as bad as they are

I have read the article, thanks. What I was pointing out was that you omitted to tell the OP that you were quoting a rate that applies to a country with a completely different culture and attitude towards gay and trans people, than the UK. Context is relevant.

As for your comment above about "hatred", I'm baffled and a bit bemused at how you've managed to extrapolate that conclusion from my post - which was actually advising that needlessly frightening people with inaccurate statistics is unhelpful.

Amalfimamma, it's not really fair to take that one phrase out of my post. I made it clear that the rates were only marginally higher and that their are very obvious reasons for that given societal difficulties, bullying, etc. I don't think it's right to use these factors as a reason to be anti-trans to a parent because "OMG, your child might ...!" it was just actually playing down the earlier post that gave not context at all.

I also made it clear that the murders were for women on the margins, so mostly sex workers, because whether you are male, female or trans, working in the sex industry makes you more likely to be the victim of violence and murder than if you are not working in that industry.

None of this is right and none of this is part of the problem facing the OP and her child. I was being a pedant before going on to talk about what is happening with OP and her child and possible ways of going forward.

I certainly don't accept the stats from the Indian medical journal. Those are ridiculously over the top. I do, however, think it is important to be aware of the slightly raised suicide percentages, because that is on us as a society to accept people for who they are and not make life more difficult for them than having to deal with all the feelings of not being "right" that they already have to cope with. That is, it's not being trans itself, it's about the way society can make life difficult for you. We, as a society, need to change, not the people who aren't the alleged norm in our society.

No wise words
It’s OK to be angry with your kids sometimes

Re gender maybe explain that you have been through the wringer and you need. A Break

Deep breathes and do whatever you can to stabilise your mood x

YANBU - you are just worn out with all this!

I cannot imagine how it feels.

I thought this might be a useful resource - this lady is a former transitioner, her story was one of the ones in the recent Atlantic article.

She’s very thoughtful, and is provides lots of insight into how to approach young women who are questioning their relationship with gender.

I thought this was a particularly useful video, but there isa ton of other info on her website too:

careycallahan.com/2018/04/23/video-instead-of-am-i-trans-ask-this-question-instead/

Ravenesque

I apologise as I read in haste and confused you with that other poster who is posting false studies and statistics trying to scare op.

There is a lot of false info being bandied about by tra to scare ppl into submission, and as we have witnessed a few posts back, if you dare question it you're labelled a transphobe.

I apologise if you felt that I had singled you out, I didn't mean to, I just don't agree with studies which claim 'we interviewed 3000 trans youth and 49% have attempted suicide' and when you look at the breakdown of subjects only 140 were trans and of that 140 only 27 were under 25.

Its data and piloted studies to push an agenda on the public and if any other lobby tried it they'd be outlawed

The suicide rates relating to being trans must be in cases where it's socially unacceptable and not being supported by parents/family. Trans people being forced into a role that isn't them must be a cause of depression.