My dd16 have I done the right thing?? Sorry it's long

[dontforgettofloss]

I've never posted on AIBU before, and I know it can be pretty brutal on here, I'm happy to be told I'm being unreasonable, but please be gentle with me, I'm feeling a bit fragile over all this.

Basically, my dd16 (who's just finished her GCSE's) was told along with the rest of the year 11's at the start of the year, that getting an invitation to the prom depended on their attendance at school, and attendance at the after school revision sessions.
My dds attendance hasn't been great, she's very anxious and highly strung, tends to think that everyone is against her, so she'd refuse to go to school sometimes- say, after an argument with a friend, or because she was 'tired', or that she didn't like a particular teacher.
I'm always supportive of her and understand her anxiety, but she'd throw huge tantrums about not going, and would say the most awful things to me because I was trying to get her to go.
She didn't attend hardly any of the after school sessions because she "couldn't be arsed" (her words) and she was told by the HOY that she wouldn't be invited to prom if she didn't start going to them. She told him she didn't care.

Fast forward to June, and she doesn't get an invite to prom, I don't think she realised that the school were actually going to follow through with the punishment.
I did feel sad for her- she's my daughter after all, and she got really down hearing all her friends talking about prom.
I told her id take her shopping this weekend coming to take her mind off the prom (which is this Friday)

Which brings me to my AIBU, yesterday, she was supposed to be going to the college she's applied for for a couple of hours to learn more about the course she's doing.
She wakes up, then starts kicking off, saying she's not going, she's too anxious, I told her I totally understand, but she had to go as a condition of her being accepted.
I spent 3 hours trying to gently convince her to go, in the end, she didn't go.
Her anxiety comes and goes- I've take her to the dr, she was referred for counselling, went for a few sessions, then said she was feeling better and didn't need them anymore.

When she was refusing to go to this college thing, I told her that if she didn't go, we wouldn't be doing our shopping trip, which I've stuck to- AIBU? Should I still take her? She says I've let her down.

This parenting a teenager thing is all new to me, although she's 16, I struggle with how to punish her, what boundaries I need to set.
Her general attitude towards me is awful, she regularly calls me a cunt when she doesn't get her own way, tells me to fuck off if I go in her room to get her washing, and doesn't do anything around the house at all.

I feel so sad that she's saying I've let her down, I try so hard to make her happy, but she never listens to me.

No particular advice, OP, as I found teenage years a struggle too, but here's a handhold.

I think maybe you need some therapy, because you are afraid of being tough with your dd and I wonder what you are afraid of.

EASY.

You take her phone away until she does X Y And Z.

Every time she whinges, moans, complains or insults you, you add another day onto the punishment.

When she eventually earns it back, the second she steps out of line again, you get the phone.

Rinse and repeat.

@dontforgettofloss Dragging her to the car wasn't the greatest of ideas. Getting into any kind of physical confrontation isn't okay. If she'd told anyone, you may well have had social services on your doorstep. Although maybe that wouldn't have been a bad thing - you sound at the end of your tether.

You may want to have think about getting some parenting support here. Perhaps a call to social services might be in order? As you say, her younger brother is being impacted by this. If you decide to go down this route, note the phrase "risk of family breakdown". They don't want to deal with the ittle beggar either, so they'll throw as much as you need at you to get you to keep her for another couple of years

But expect to hear some fairly straightforward views on your parenting. If you think MN are harsh....

BUT before you do it you sit down and lay out exactly what is expected of her, and all the behaviours that will cause her to lose her phone.

She will lose it in half an hour Flat.

Let the changes begin.

caribbeanyesplease tbf she doesn't 'back chat' or misbehave at school, yes she told them that she didn't care about going to prom, but it was me she told she "couldn't be arsed" with going to revision sessions

She's very quiet at school believe it or not, she saves all her anger for me

For goodness sake stop bloody pandering to her!!! Three hours cajoling her? Are you kidding me?? I don’t care how bloody anxious she is - you have an interview for college you go! I have gone to interviews (including college) before where I have had a total panic, vomited with nerves outside the door and then gone in and done the interview - because it is what you have to do - you are letting her get away with murder!! If she was mine, I have told her to get her arse or bed and down to that college, even whilst vomiting, shaking whatever - that’s irrelevant - stuff in life is scary but you still have to woman up and get through it - no-one is going to do it for you - she needs to know that!!

Have you asked her where she thinks she will be living in September because if she isn’t in college full time, then she needs to be bringing a wage in to pay rent and board and so she had better get her arse in gear and get a job!

I know people with anxiety - they can’t leave the house for anything- they don’t pick and choose. She is manipulating you massively here and you are doing her no favours putting up with it.

Without wishing to be horrible - you are not going to be there for the rest of her life - you will die before her so she will be left on her own without you to feed her, clothe her and be her kicking board. Your job is to teach her to cope and get on with things - even if you are scared!! So start teaching her!!

I have a 16 year old ds and unfortunately hear a lot of 'can't be arsed' so presumably it;'s a common attitude. It's really hard to navigate these years, especially if dc is anxious and you feel like your stepping on eggshells.

I wouldn't back down though I would try to find a way for her to 'win' back the shopping trip later in the summer.

My own limited advice is I've found it most effective to stick to my guns about rules but to try to be kind and reasonable outside of whatever the particular issue is (rather than showing my general irritation). I think it is always helpful if there is an open opportunity to move on.

Good luck!

I think you are coping fine. Does she know she cannot just attend college as and when without getting thrown off the course? And that she has to be in education or training until 18. Is she likely to meet their entry grades? Maybe see if she is willing meet the wellbeing advisor at the college to reassure her that she can do this and there is support available.

before you do it you sit down and lay out exactly what is expected of her, and all the behaviours that will cause her to lose her phone

This ^ but when she is calm. Have a rational conversation, stay calm, and above all be consistent. Your other children will learn from this behaviour and it'll go both ways. If she can scream and shout and get her way, they will too. Your changes in parenting apply to all your kids and it has to be a permanent change or your other kids will end up like this too.

wyatt98765 I've tried all that when telling her to go to school- and I asked her yesterday when she was refusing to go to college what she was planning to do for the rest of her life, I've told her to grow up, that she needs to realise that going out into the world of work and college, can be a bit intimidating, but that she needs to do it, that she'll feel better for it, and that it'll boost her confidence.
Believe me, I've talked till I'm blue in the face to her.
When I was her age, my mother had died a few months previously, and I had little support, somehow, I managed to get myself a full time job, attended an interview despite being terrified- I tell her this, but it all goes in one ear and out the other

You change her by not yielding to her anymore.

By doing what you tell her you will do and seeing it through to the end. No more half hearted consequences that you give up on when she decides or because you're finding it too hard to see through.

By changing the tone of voice you use when you speak to he. Don't plead, don't use a quiet simpering voice, don't ask. Calmly, firmly, assertively inform her. (Google "CCI assertiveness modules")

Even if you don't feel confident and in control you need your voice to sound like you are. She will be able to tell if your tone of voice indicates you're upset and afraid to ask her to do anything.

By not pleading and asking and begging. You tell her what she has to do. You tell her what the consequences will be if she doesn't. And then you enforce those consequences.

By understanding that you are a good parent showing her how much you love her by setting boundaries and teaching her how to behave responsibly and respectfully. Loving her isn't about caving in to her.

By backing up the boundaries school etc are enforcing, rather than trying to make her feel better for having to face the consequences of her actions - it just undermines the lesson they are trying to teach her.

By getting your ex on side so he isn't undermining this either. It's not acceptable for her to swear at either of you, but it's not acceptable for him to swear back! It undermines your point if you tell her swearing isn't ok.

By not seeing your role as that of appeasement. Your role is to prepare her for the world.

By being consistent at all the above. Thus far, it seems all you've been consistent with is giving in to her and being a pushover.

Teens will push hard against their boundaries, it's part of them working out who they are and their place in the world. You need to actually have boundaries there though or this is the result.

All of the above is how you change things and also how you act as a loving parent who wants the best for her.

By way of contrast, an abusive parent would not bother to do any of that, would not care if she went to school, would not care if she went to college, would change the rules constantly and unpredictably so she never knew where she stood, would hand out severe punishments for things that were acceptable the day before (and by severe, I mean denial of food, being locked out the house at night, having to sleep on the floor, being beaten, being ignored for weeks on end, being threatened, etc), would put her down, would sabotage her friendships, would delight in causing her pain...

You are clearly none of those things. But you do need to be her parent.

"I try so hard to make her happy,"

That's your anxiety - you desperately want her happy.

Honestly? I think she is manufacturing anxiety when it suits her, and it isn't doing her any favours.

Why offer to take her shopping and buy her stuff to 'make up for' not going to prom? A better lesson would be for her to learn that she can endure missing prom and still survive. That is resilience - being able to get through a disappointment or set back. You are teaching her that she needs molly coddling in order to get through.

As it happens, I hate it that schools use the Prom as a reward and make it conditional - it should be an unconditional celebration. However, your school does make it conditional, she knew that, she had a warning and reminder....and she couldn't be arsed. And now you are 'taking her mind off it', with money, buying her stuff.

Assertiveness.

Learn to be calm and direct.
"Today you need to do this. Yes, you can do this, it is within your power to make the choice to do this. I can't make you, but I won't be able to help you, either, if you don't help yourself!
Very calm and firm: "I will not deal with language like that. You have 10 minutes to apologise or I will not be doing any household tasks for you"
AND FOLLOW THROUGH.
You can be firm and hold your ground without shouting or being horrible to her. In fact it is much better NOT to get angry and shouty.

If she is screaming and yelling about having had her phone removed, just calmly say 'I don't now why you are screaming like this, you know perfectly well how to get your phone back and keep it. All you have to do is be civil and behave as part of this family and household. You have it within your power to do that"

The school have forbidden her from attending prom
She told them that she didn’t care whether she went or not

These two facts lead me to believe that she has wasted teaching time dealing with her.
But you don’t see that. And that in itself is a concern

OP I’m rooting for you. But I’m not optimistic.

Thank you eryngium that makes a lot of sense, I think somewhere along the line, I've just failed in my parenting attempts, and have tried to be a friend.

caribbeanyesplease I understand why the school have forbidden her from attending the prom.
In teaching time, in lessons, she behaved herself, she never disrupted the class, and on parents evenings, I was always told that she was quiet, well behaved, but wasn't trying her best

lizs I've told her that she needs to be in education until she's 18, I also told her prior to this that her not attending school could end up with me being prosecuted- I work in a school, and a criminal record would result in me losing my job, she said she didn't care, then said she'd "take the blame".

I think she's mistaking being afraid / pretending she has Anxiety as an excuse not to do things she finds hard.

Were taught all about anxiety and the signs etc at school now so it wouldn't be hard for her to get a diagnosis by saying the right things.

Your parenting style is called permissive parenting - see here: www.healthline.com/health/parenting/what-is-permissive-parenting .

"Many studies have found that permissive parenting is actually linked to problems in children, like poor academic performance and behavioral problems. For example, one study found that children as young as 4 years old tend to internalize problems more when they’re exposed to permissive parenting. In contrast, children who have more authoritative parenting styles display less signs of internalizing behavior."

I understand you wanting to cushion the blow for your DD missing prom, give in to the begging for her phone back etc but your instinct to shield her from the consequences of her own poor choices is not doing her any favours. Also, think about anyone you've ever respected or admired - are they a pushover? No, thought not. It's not too late for you to set some boundaries. Good luck

lemonyssnicket I think you're right, she manages to do other trying that she's anxious about.

acatsnohelpwiththat that sounds like me, and she has had poor academic performance. Tbh, she's always had one issue or another with school, ever since the age of 5 when she started school, and I've babied her, and it seems that I've completely ruined her

*things not trying

Parenting is about physically and emotionally preparing your child for a responsible, independent adult life.

It starts early: brushing teeth, potty training, learning to put things away after use, helping wash up or load the washing machine, clear the tables and preparing basic meals.

Home, family, friends and school teach social skills and skills for life: giving and taking, kindness and consideration for others.

When was the last time your dd made you a cup of tea because you are tired op?

It sounds as if your dd has been allowed to become a monster because you have enabled it by pandering to her every whim because you are unconditionally kind and loving.

She treats your home like a hotel and you as her emotional punch bag and skivvy.

It's a shame you didn't start off much much earlier in developing her independence through giving her responsibilities which would have given her confidence, especially if you both suffer from anxiety.

Doing everything for her disempowers her and she probably does not feel confident so that is what you need to work on first.

Explain that things are going to change for her own benefit as you doing things for her is what mums of young children do. She needs to be able to stand on her own two feet.

Keep calm and do not shout at her even if she tantrums. You can text her or leave a list on the fridge door.

From now on she needs to:

1. Wash her own clothes or help with the family's
2. Cook meals for herself or for the family
3. Clean and tidy her own room and/or help around the house

You do nothing for her that she can do herself.

Remember she is a role model for her younger siblings and she needs to show kindness and consideration of others if she expects it from others.

In a nutshell she needs to have good social skills to have a happy, independent adult life so you need to start working with her on this.

I have 4 teenage dds one with severe anxiety and on meds for it and she is the kindest, most considerate soul because she understands how awful anxiety is and so being able to clean, cook and wash her clothes etc gives her confidence for when she leaves home and goes on to uni. She is 16.

Op you don't need to fight her, you just don't pander her. You tell her swearing means you are deducting pocket money ( if she gets any) or some other sanction.

Tell her she needs to help out to earn money from now on to prepare her for the working world.

Good luck and remember you need to do this because her younger siblings are watching and listening and you need all of them to have the skills they need to make a success of their lives.

Start today! A new beginning!!

OP, please don't show her this thread.

I have two DDs with anxiety disorders and they've both had their moments of bad behaviour too. At times it can be very difficult to distinguish between the two.

An excellent and highly skilled CAMHS psychologist (yes they do exist) told me early on that one of the things I needed to be most careful to avoid was punishing them when their anxiety stopped them being able to do things. He said that generally children want to go to school and take next steps but anxiety can be crippling. Punishing them for not being able to do something due to anxiety isn't going to make them more able to do it and will just cause additional distress.

He also said that often children and young people haven't developed the expressive language (despite being very eloquent in other ways) or the emotional literacy to explain why they can't do something so they use terms like 'I can't be bothered' to shut down the inevitable interrogation.

It isn't acceptable for her to be abusive towards you and I agree that you need to address that sort of behaviour. However, I would not try to address it as times of high anxiety because, at those times, thinking and communicating will be much harder and messages are less likely to get through. Look back together later, when things are calmer and impose sanctions then if necessary. Be firm with the boundaries and make it clear that the sanctions are about her abusive behaviour, not her inability to do something.

I was also advised to continue activities that supported emotional well-being and self-esteem because they are what help you overcome anxiety. For that reason I would resist punishing her by withdrawing activities like shopping. Just don't like the two in your own head.

I know I'm going against the grain here but I've spent years doing this and it's become clear to me that sanctions and anxiety don't mix. They just increase stress, erode self-esteem and destroy motivation to keep trying.

It does sound like she maybe needs some CBT to help her manage this and maybe, medication if that isn't enough. I refused medication at first for both of my DDs as I believed that talking therapies should be explored first.

It also sounds like she needs help to find other ways to communicate when she's anxious and upset and to manage her anger (which is probably with herself) so she doesn't need to resort to the abusive behaviour she's displaying now.

I'm aware that some people will lay into me for this post so I'm happy to discuss this by PM if you think it would be helpful.