to change DD's school & move away to have a life separate from DM?

[YesSheCan]

Namechange as too much personal info on previous thread, now deleted.

Ooh, and no moving date yet, just waiting game now. Sent off in-year applications for schools for DD, put down the 3 choices and I'll be bloody over the moon if she gets a place at any of them. They're all apparently excellent schools but out of catchment (the only one within catchment isn't great at all). Fair enough if she doesn't want to go to an all-girls school. She said she wants to go to a 'normal' mixed school (and then says 'anyway I'm not moving schools' but ahem, yes she is) so that is what I've applied for.

Yes, yes she is moving school. And house.
And yes, she will have a better life and a happier home, and a better relationship with you.

I wonder if you can work on getting your daughter to recognise when she's being manipulated (after the move).

When I was growing up my parents taught a us to spot certain things a relative would say or do - it made a game (a bit like BS bingo) out of what I now realise was a bloody awful situation. It also turned us into a team and gave us a laugh instead of anger.

Just a thought.

WittyName that's a great idea. And hopefully will help DD in situations where friends or partner might be behaving in manipulative way in future too so she can deal with it in a healthy way not like I've done in the past

Your thoughts on this, please. With the in-year transfer school application, there's a section for 'reasons for move' - I have said selling house necessary for personal and financial reasons and out of area move because of problems with manipulative and controlling GP impacting on DD. There is also a tick box 'Is the child transferring because of domestic violence?' I have not ticked the box but asterisked next to this and put 'not as such but very difficult domestic situation, see reasons for move.' Do you think this is reasonable? I ummed and ahhed so much because there are so many people who are victim to horrendous DV and it seemed drastic to say, yes, we are moving because of domestic violence. I mean, I have to sell amd downsize because of the financial reasons anyway but am moving out of area, to be brutally honest, mainly to get away from DM and partly because of DP - would like to be with him longterm but currently visiting him regularly (because I haven't wanted him to come to mine and experience the mentalness) means too much weekend time away from DD and him not getting to know her. But if living where we are now was working out fine, everyone was happy and there wasn't this batshit home situation, I wouldn't be taking DD away from her school just to be nearer DP, he could mover nearer us.

Just to clarify, after move, am still gonna be 1hr15min car journey from DPs but once in our own place, DP can come and stay with me and DD in a more 'normal' setup without DM being around and a)telling me I am doing everything wrong and b)criticising DP for not being chatty enough among all the other non-faults she has managed to find with him despite having met him briefly twice and therefore not knowing him and c) also slagging him off to DD.

I realise I have just entered over-explaining mode but I start to get anxious that readers will think, oh, so she's actually moving to be nearer DP and pretending it's all because of her DM. I guess the situation still has me doubting what others will think of me, even though I thought I really didn't care anymore!

Ultimately you are relocating to the controlling and bullying behaviour of your Mum.

how about "severe and damaging emotional manipulation and alienation of my daughter"?

I think it's important to be clear the move is to escape a damaging relationship with your mother. That there is an ongoing risk to your daughter's mental health from your mother.

You don't need to go into massive amounts of detail at this point. Save that for when you have a school place.

her mental and emotional abuse of you and the constant manipulation to alienate you from your child is domestic abuse.

so cross out 'violence' and write 'abuse' next to it.

How's it going OP?

Same old stuff, downinthejunglee. DD has taken her entrance tests for the private school we went to visit (did them at her current school) but still doesn't want to go there and I'd be relying on securing the bursary which isn't definite, so I've pretty much discounted that option anyway. Next step is appealing to the state schools I've applied to (top 2 choices are full and 3rd choice is a massive school, a good one but would be a big adjustment for her...but it has places). So I'll find her a school place somewhere decent.
DD is still saying 'anyway I'm not moving schools, I'm staying where I am' I say, 'well, that's not an option because we're moving' and she says 'DM says I can live with her'. So it's escalated from DM saying to her, 'there'll be a room for you at my place and you can stay whenever you want' to 'you can live with me'. And I've already asked DM calmly on more than one occasion not to tell DD that living with her is an option because it isn't. But DM is still saying that to DD. It's physically getting DD to move with me that I'm worried about. Do I involve SS??

Crikey op, I don't know. How old is DD? I can't remember.

I know there's an age where they start to ask the child's preference in things like custody during divorce, but (assuming D?M doesn't have PR) I don't know what they would do.

I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable will be along in a minute.

No DM does not have PR and her behaviour is emotionally abusive so DD really should not be allowed to 'choose' to live with her - it is not really a choice as DM's histrionic reactions to me deciding to move and her undermining of me have had a big influence on DD's feelings towards moving in the first place; she has been manipulated and I'm trying to take her away from that. Surely SS would look dimly on what DM is doing? Don't want to involve them but what if DD point blank refuses to physically come with me because DM says she can live with her. Had another calm (on my side) word with DM tonight out of earshot of DD and asked her not to tell DD she can live with her. I got yelled at, told I'm 'being bizarre...just because you've started doing a few things over the last couple of weeks, I don't know what you think you're doing' (I have been more proactive in taking DD to school over recent weeks but it's been over last many months to a year that I've been preparing for this move, including doing the decorating to get house ready to go on market by myself when I was sick). Then DM tried to turn the discussion (her yelling) into slagging off my partner and making out she is 'worried about my daughter' (ie me) because she's decided she doesn't like him. Uses this as opportunity to tell me I'm only thinking of myself, like I always do, and then brings up examples of a poor relationship choice I made years ago (which did not involve DD coming to any harm otherwise maybe she would have a point). I didn't rise to this and brought conversation back to DD and firmly said DD will be living with me and please do not encourage her to think she can live with you. No reply. I ask, will you do that please? DM screams 'go away' at me and starts crying (not very genuine crying) and saying she is finding it hard enough to hold it together as it is. An attempt to be the victim which would have me feeling terribly guilty and bad about myself in the past. But I'm not falling for it now. I do say to her that I want to take DD away from this environment because I don't want her to be messed up and DM says 'Ha, don't make me laugh' in a horrid sarcastic way, implying that my comment is so ironic because it's me who would mess up DD. So there we go. That was today.

How old is your DD? it is relevant if she doesn’t want to move, your mother is offering a home and if they are duplicitous enough to sound convincing.

DD is almost 12

Ok, 11 is probably too young for you to have to worry about that, it’s about 13+ to decide which parent, perhaps more if it’s only a grandparent.

Your poor daughter and poor you. That woman's a nightmare

I need to go to sleep. DD has been doing (or not doing the whole time but faffing around doing other stuff on her laptop) a piece of homework for the last 3 hours. In front of TV while DM watched programs as DD refused to go in separate room and work at her desk. Refused my offer to help her with it so I left her get on with it. Each time I've popped in to check in her, she's done a tiny amount more. Agter much dragging it out we agreed she'd be done by quarter to ten. Went down at 10 as she was still not upstairs getting ready for bed. She had 3 more lines to write and I stood over her while she finished. Then said ok, shut down your laptop, time for bed. DM in meantime is talking loudly over me going, 'what is this new persona of yours? Have you read a book or something? (She mocks me because I bought a book about respectful communication with your children when DDs behaviour got bad last year) For goodness sake!' and stomping around...then when I tell DD to get upstairs to bed DM says, 'she'd be on her way already if you hadn't come in, now there are going to be ructions. Why are you down here? Just go to bed. I can see to her. I am still here, you know'...all in a really aggressive cross tone.

Just putting this here to give a fuller picture of what everyday life is like here and how my interactions with DD are continually sabotaged.

is there no way you can get this awful, poisonous mother out of your house? Even giving her formal notice and evicting her?

every single thing you have written makes me think that your mother has bought your daughter's affections and you might have one hell of a fight to stop her from enticing yoru daughter to live with her in not-very-many years. I really think your relationship with your daughter has probably been very badly damaged.

If this was any other person on earth, you'd be packing their bags and leaving them outside the front door and calling the police to have them removed.

Whatever happens, you're going to have to quietly and very persistantly over many months have some conversations about manipulation, about divide-and-conquor tactics and about what is actually in a child's best interests .. which is not one care giver consistently and deliberately undermining the other, and doing so with bribery to buy affection.

What the hell was she like when she was bringing you up? this behaviour is outrageous and so so poisonous.

She's a right cow! Is there any way you can get her out of the house before you move? Or move you and DD into a B&B until the move? I think the quicker you can get away from her, the better. Hugs!

I honestly dont know how you haven't snapped. Like drip drip drip of shite into your ear all the time.
Your dd knows it is her. She will be relieved to leave.
I was on your last thread but you are utterly amazing. I hope with your dp that in time you can have the perfect family.

Can anyone post a link to the previous thread?

No because op is worried it contains too much info and has asked for it to be deleted

I thought she agreed with MN just to delete some posts