...to sometimes give toddler DD the finger behind her back?

[Legbreak]

She definitely doesn’t see and it makes me feel better and is always at home, not out and about etc. My DSis thinks it’s appalling.

storm, I've been a parent long enough to have two gorgeous teen-aged children with whom we have a great relationship and I've been teaching teenagers for over 20 years.

If threatening to chop a four year old's legs off and having them smirk at you in response is your idea of fun and happiness then I am very happy to be called a fun sucker.

Such threats are not fun.

Making empty threats is poor parenting.

Swearing at children, whether or not they know you're doing it, is not good parenting.

When they turn round as teen-agers and adopt such 'fun' ways of speaking back to you I would also be surprised if you find it 'fun' or the means to a 'happy' family life.

@Shockers, husband works in a school for severe EBD and I work in a very large comprehensive. We have both seen the full range of poor parenting ranging from physical and sexual abuse to neglect to treating children as if they were friends and spoiling them without setting boundaries. We also see all of the consequences of this.

I agree with the poster who said as parents we must model the behaviour we want to see in our children. If you want your children to swear at you behind your back, go right ahead. If you want your children to threaten other children with chopping off their legs and burying them in little pieces in the garden (honestly, some people find this funny ) go right ahead. But please be aware that your children will copy your model and their behaviour will affect everybody in their lives and the way they go on to parent their own children too.

Fucking horrible.

There is such a difference between mouthing an obscenity such as 'for fucks sake' to the inside of the fridge and making an aggressive gesticulation at a child.

Better than to her face!

Sommelierrr, you can justify anything on that basis can't you? Better to give somebody a little tap than a full on punch?

If your child turns round while you're making the gesture the only difference is that he or she realizes that you're not the calm, controlled, ADULT that she hopefully thought you are but you're actually quite childish and nasty.

nostaples do you parent a child with special needs?
If you do then I doff my hat to you for you are obviously a far better person than I.
If you don't...... then you have no clue!
To be perfectly honest....if my son did swear at me or anyone else behind their back rather than exploding ( as is his wont as part of his ASD) I would be happy.
And another thing - my last post was full of swearing because I was making a point. In real life I rarely swear. I manage to teach extremely challenging children without swearing out loud or shouting at them. I manage to deal with the parents of these children, who themselves are extremely challenging, without swearing.
Sometimes I swear in private, in my head, in my cupboard etc.
That enables me to be calm and patient when dealing with the stresses my children and my job throw at me.
So, if I want to fucking swear on a fucking anonymous message board fucking well will.

With respect, nostaples, you have completely misunderstood my post.

What on earth has that got to do with it, Jeff?

I've taught children with and without SN for 20 years and raised two children of my own.

I've never sworn at one of them once either to their face or behind their back.

Does that make me a saint? No. It makes me a responsible adult.

We've got to a bad old state if swearing at children is somehow seen as more normal that not doing so.

The idea that a child with SN is somehow justification for swearing is quite disturbing frankly.

I'm sure quite rightly you'd expect a teacher or carer to be sacked if they did this.

You would not believe some of the extreme behaviours I have had to put up with in my career.

Swearing at children is not on.

And please do not make it into a binary. Swearing allows you to carry on as normal with your child.

You will find that many adults manage to look after children without feeling the need to swear at them. It's called being a grown-up.

Really nostaples? You'd expect a teacher, who went into a cupboard and mouthed FFS or OMFG, took a deep breath and came out calm and ready to deal with nonsense to be sacked?

And to be clear - I don't swear 'at' my child. I go into another room and do a silly dance, which involves a swaering gesture. I also count to 10, walk away, clench my toes inside my shoes, shake it off, put on a song.

I spend my days dealing with extreme behaviour. My sweary dance is one tool in my armoury.

My point about asking if you raised children with SN was to establish whether you had a clue about the stresses it brings. If you do then clearly you are a far better person than I.

My son is a head taller than me, strong as an Ox and prone to outbursts. I am often scared that he will hurt me or someone else if he flips. I walk on egg shells. I spend huge parts of my life close to tears.

You have no clue what it takes me. No clue at all.

I would much rather that my father had done the sweary dance in another room than what he said to my face.

'You'd expect a teacher, who went into a cupboard and mouthed FFS or OMFG, took a deep breath and came out calm and ready to deal with nonsense to be sacked?'

Yes.

What do you think would be happening to the children while the teacher was in the cupboard swearing?

Like I said, where people have no choice but to get on with the job whether that's teaching, police or prison work or parenting, they find the resources inside themselves to do that, without swearing or losing it. They HAVE to model calm behaviour. Can you imagine what would happen if I was dealing with a fight situation which I have or a child threatening to kill themselves which I have and started swearing or needing to put my head in a cupboard.

Please don't feel you can pull the SN parent rank on me which is a standard MN fallback position.

It is even MORE important to be calm and model good behaviour when dealing with children with SN.

My dh is head of a school for children with severe EBD. Although he deals with a school full of children exhbiting extremely challenging, often violent behaviour he has never sworn at or behind the back of a child or parent and neither have his colleagues.

Often the children have behavioural problems because their parents have no clue how to manage them or model good behaviour so it is VITAL that he does this. Children need to see the adults in charge coping, not falling to pieces in cupboards or secretly swearing at them. I'm amazed that anybody would think that was OK or funny.

TooMAny, it's not either/or. It should not be that you secretly swear to avoid swearing for real. Don't do it AT ALL in front of children.

If you can't manage your own behaviour you haven't got a chance of teaching your children to do this.

Get some family therapy or read some books if you need to.

I never did this but can fully understand how some parents do.

We are all human, differing personalities. It's hardly shocking, is it?

I think swearing at a toddler is shocking actually @Namechangedname

nostaples I was brought up in care and it wasn't due to my parents 'swearing' behind my back, if only it had been.

Probably why I'm not shocked..

Just to refocus, the OP does not say her child has SN. She does not say she swears because she is at the very extreme of being able to cope. She says she does it because it makes her feel better and she wouldn't if she was out (indicating that she knows it's not socially acceptable).

Swearing at your toddler to make yourself feel better is not funny. Is not OK IMHO.

Giving the finger or swearing is just not something I would consider doing to anyone I had any respect for. Especially not to a child who is just trying to find their way in the world, who looks up to me and loves me unconditionally. I couldn’t break their trust—even if they didn’t see me or hear me. I do normal parent things like count to 10, tell my children off, confiscate stuff, complain to DH & my friends.

Also, I try to treat my children how I would want to be treated. It would devastate me to know that DH, for example, was being sweet to my face and then giving me the finger every time I turned my back.

This. In spade fulls.

@nostaples you talk so much perfect sense

There was a study recently on how swearing can help you withstand pain. People held their hands in Icy water, the participants who were allowed to swear were able to keep there hands in longer than those who couldn't. So maybe people can similarly put up with difficult and challenging behaviour from others longer by having a second to disappear into the next room and swear under their breath or flick a V, and then returning to deal with it calmly.

I don't want to be too judgy about it because we all have different amount of stress in our lives. I wouldn't do it though. I'd feel terrible if they turned round and saw me. And I'd be pretty upset if I found out that a loved one was doing it to me :-/

I do it all the time to my DH. Never to DC (except maybe 19year old DS but never to 3 year old DD)