Please make sure children are wearing appropriate clothing

[Damnthatdog]

No mini skirts or crop tops, yr 6 leavers party.

So not children, but girls. Please make sure girls aren’t wearing anything which could be deemed provocative. Which is how it reads to me.

AIBU or not?

I don't know why they would specify no crop tops though. That seems weird and unnecessary
Because there has to be a line.

Personally I don't think a slightly shorter casual t shirt with stars or unicorns is inappropriate, if worn with jeans and trainers.

I do think sexy crop tops like bralettes and that sort of style are inappropriate.

It's not the existence of a child's stomach that makes something inappropriate. It's the whole outfit.

E.g. I've seen many a girl in mini skirt pinafores with tights. Also seen girls in mini skirts, bare legs and trainers in the summer. Skirts above the knee aren't inherently an issue.

But some children's clothing isn't children's clothing. It's clothing emulating sexy women's clothing. People on here are being obtuse by pretending that there's nothing at all suggestive or sexy about items of clothing (despite all common sense saying there is).

Unfortunately, it's much easier to say no mini skirts and crop tops than it is to say 'Sally can't wear her lacy crop top and faux leather micro skirt because actually she is dressed like an 18/19 year old on the pull abd it's obviously a sexualised outfit, but Tina can wear her rainbow printed cropped t shirt with shorts because that's clearly a child's outfit'

As long as there are parents who want to dress their children in sexualised outfits based on women's fashion, schools will have to have blanket rules.

We are talking about children and clothing and pedophiles, and forgetting that pedophiles target boys.

What is it about the boys' clothing that attracts them?

The one thing that pedophiles look for is a parent or caregiver who will be an easy mark. What the child wears is secondary.

We are kidding ourselves when we say that clothing is a magic shield against pedophiles. The opportunistic pedophile at the bowling alley looks for a child who lacks chutzpah, the sweet child who needs to please, the child who has been brought up to defer to the adult, to always listen.

While some sexual abuse of children occurs on an opportunistic basis (while out, kidnapped, lured into a car, dragged into an alley or bushes, sand dunes, etc) most children who are sexually abused by a pedophile have been allowed into that child's life by a parent who is absent either emotionally or physically, for many reasons. Most children preyed upon by a pedophile have been groomed over time to accept the abuse and the abuse frequently happens right under a parent's nose.

In addition, pedophiles trawl the internet and social media looking for photos that can be used - photos can be photoshopped, with naked adults added, babies' or children's clothing removed, faces added to different bodies; paedos can develop crushes on certain children and trade stolen images from websites. Your child can be sent bowling in a very sensible outfit and still end up as part of someone's twisted collection.
Take a good look at your SM use and be very careful what you post and what you allow your children to post.

US stats show that family members abuse 49% of those attacked under age 6, and 42% of those attacked aged 7-11. Family members attack 24% of victims aged 12-17. There is no reason to believe that stats elsewhere in the developed world diverge significantly from the US.
You don't have to go out bowling in a mini and crop top to be in danger.

Pedophiles are not the issue though- the issue is the the developing relationships between the boys and girls in the class who will become the men and women of the future. Girls need to be taught self respect, dignity, confidence to feel attractive without the need to dress in a certain way and the boys need to be taught similar values, to respect themselves and girls for their character, personality etc. not their looks.

Pedophiles will not be the issue on a school bowling trip!

I think we need to go right back to basics and teach boys that girls are fully human people, not commodities, no matter what they are wearing.

Boys need to be taught to appreciate looks without assuming a girl is personally telling them something by their clothing and demeanour.

We are not going to gain anything by setting up a dichotomy between girls who respect themselves (to judge by their clothing) and girls who do not. This is what we do when we focus on clothing as a marker of self respect and respect-worthiness.

"Pedophiles are not the issue though- the issue is the the developing relationships between the boys and girls in the class who will become the men and women of the future."

^ This

Society is always trying to control what women and girls wear and how they behave....guess it’s getting these girls used to it young :/

"Pedophiles are not the issue though- the issue is the the developing relationships between the boys and girls in the class who will become the men and women of the future."

And if we think we are going to create a better future by policing what the girls wear, we are actually not moving forward at all, just continuing to teach the boys that they do not have to be responsible for their personal choices.

I think we need to go right back to basics and teach boys that girls are fully human people, not commodities, no matter what they are wearing
I think we need to go back to basics and stop pretending that there's no difference between children's clothing and children's clothing lifted from a mainstream ideal of female sexuality.
I think we should go back to basics where parents dress their children as children in attire that is appropriate for their activity.
I think we shouls go back to basics and realise that the reason all crop tops and mini skirts have had to be banned is because there are adults out there who will claim that there's no reason not to dress thwir child in a lace bralette or tight bum skimming faux leather skirt aged 10 and if anyone objects they're clearly a perv. (Meanwhile parents who have bought their child a child crop top generally realise like many rules, they have to be made to account for the idiots)

I'm doing an assembly tomorrow. Maybe I shouls turn up in denim hot pants with half my ass on show and a crop top. After all. It's just clothes and if anyone sees something sexualised then that's on then. I'm just expressing myself and can stand up in front of KS3 just fine in anything I want because I am empowered.

Well keep allowing children to wear whatever they like, we will see how you feel about it when your doctor calls you into their surgery and is sitting in their chair wearing hot pants and a bralette. Lets see if you take them seriously.
Basically that is what it comes down to. Self respect teaching children to have a bit of dignity, and actually it's not always appropriate to dress in whatever way you fancy.

So you don't think there is another side to the issue of girls being perved over, of sexual assault and harassment, of male entitlement and rape culture, MaisyPops?

You think if only parents would dress their girls sensibly none of that would happen?

Timeisslippingaway
There was a time not so long ago when having boobs and a uterus and vagina meant that people weren't taken seriously, regardless of what they were wearing. The thought of a doctor equipped with such anatomical elements would be laughed at.

The female anatomy meant that a woman's testimony in court was only worth a certain fraction of a man's testimony.

We have clearly moved forward at light speed when all we have to use against women now is their choice of clothing.

mathanxiety

You really do talk one load of shite

Timeisslippingaway, do you not believe that there was a time in human history, not so long ago actually, when women were never taken seriously, just because they were women, and assumed to be raving hormonal wrecks, incapable of intellectual endeavour, whose word was not to be trusted?

mathanxiety

We are not talking about times of female repression, we are talking about now, today and we need to teach out daughter to have respect for their body.
No matter how ignorant people want to be and how much they want to pretend that no clothing is designed to be "sexy" they are wrong and they know it, they just love to blow the "anti feminism" horn everytime someone points it out.

mathanxiety

Are you this patronising in your real life?
I am well aware of the past and how far woman have come.

Asking 10 year old girls not to dress in clothing initially designed for adults for a school trip, really has nothing to do with this.

Don’t see the problem with this. 10 yr olds shouldn’t be wearing sexualised clothing on a school trip (or anywhere for that matter). I wouldn’t want my DD attending a school where this was thought of as fine.

do you not believe that there was a time in human history, not so long ago actually, when women were never taken seriously, just because they were women, and assumed to be raving hormonal wrecks, incapable of intellectual endeavour, whose word was not to be trusted?

Yes and still now! Try being a professional woman with intellect. Or a woman reporting a sexual assault. Or a woman. This is still how things are.

All off topic - the point is that some clothes are inappropriate for children, some are inappropriate for bowling and girls should be raised to understand that they do not need to dress like sexual objects to have value.

So you don't think there is another side to the issue of girls being perved over, of sexual assault and harassment, of male entitlement and rape culture, MaisyPops?

You think if only parents would dress their girls sensibly none of that would happen?
Not once have I said that clothing contributes to rape and assault.

In fact, on multiple occasions I've been explicitly clear that clothing does not cause assault so I'm not sure why you keep coming back to that with me.

Women's clothing is part of a massive machinery designed to promote a very narrow view of female attractiveness and sexuality.
I believe that children should be shielded from that sort of pressure, stereotypes and general set of values as much as possible.

Seeing someone's tummy is not inherently sexual. A shorter t shirt with a pattern is not designed to be a sexy item of clothing. A clingy, low cut crop top is designed to be sexy and to accentuate features associated with sexuality.
The first crop top is appropriate on a child. The second isn't.
I question the logic of any adult who would dress a child in the second item of clothing.

When we get to the point where adults are pushing narrow views of female attractiveness and sexuality onto girls and calling it 'empowerment', i find it quite sad. What better way to keep the status quo than to convince women and girls that it's for their benefit.
Notice how often all the 'empowerment' discussions always seem to reference women wearing little clothing and how women covering up seems to be presented as oppressive. That's probably because tje standard of expected female beauty hasn't changed, just the method of pushing thay agenda has.

Women make whatever choices they like, but we are not in a vacuum and should probably hope for more for children.

Paedophiles aren't relevant for a school trip, but seeing as they keep being mentioned...

While a paedophile my target any child - male or female- regardless of clothing, you are conveniently forgetting that overtly sexual clothing in children is an advert. It advertises the fact that the child is likely to be vulnerable and a potential easy target. Clothes send off messages. You might not like the fact, but they do.

colours
It's not an advert at all.
Mosr safeguarding training confirms that it's vulnerability that attracts predators (which is why people on here raising the idea of paedophiles in relation to having children dress for their age and activity is almost a pointless argument).

Now, some more vulnerable children (thinking teens here at risk of child sexual exploitation) can dress in a particular way because they've been socialised to believe this is what gets attention, but the clothing emerges out of their vulnerability. It's the potential victim's vulnerability thay makes them a target, not their clothing. You could put me and a vulnerable 13 year old child in the same outfit and the vuknerable child would be the target. You could put a confident and secure 15 year old and a vulnerable 22 year old in an outfit and the vulnerable 22 year old would probablely be the target for an abusive partner.

The main issue is whether children should dress as children and whether adults have a duty to apply a spot of common sense before actively facilitating their child to be socialised into very narrow models of female attactiveness at the age if 10.

Overtly sexual clothing advertises vulnerability.

It's not a hard concept.

I'm not doubting it can indicate vulnerability.

I'm saying just wearing the clothes isn't an advert for predators and someone who wears certain clothes isn't automatically vulnerable. When we start getting into 'what someone wears makes them a target' it's dodgy ground.

I understand your point OP. I have an 8 year old daughter, who was told last year to wear shorts under her summer dress "just in case". I told her she could just wear her dress, but she was embarrassed because the teacher said it to all the children in the class and she didn't want to be singled out. It left an impression. Since then I have tried hard to teach her that it is her body and she can choose whether to wear shorts/dress/skirt/trackies/leggings etc. I would be annoyed at this email, and would send my dd in shorts and cropped top. It's a comfortable and appropriate outfit. There is nothing sexual about a 10 or 11 year old's body.

And even if a girl of that age is 'developing' and growing up, she shouldn't have to adapt her clothing to fit this. I don't understand it at all. I'd be taking it up with the school tbh. And I agree, this is around the age that young pre-teens get blamed and internalise the message that a woman is to blame for sexual assault.

And even if a girl of that age is 'developing' and growing up, she shouldn't have to adapt her clothing to fit this. I don't understand it at all. I'd be taking it up with the school tbh. And I agree, this is around the age that young pre-teens get blamed and internalise the message that a victim is to blame for sexual assault.