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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Please make sure children are wearing appropriate clothing

501 replies

Damnthatdog · 19/06/2018 16:14

No mini skirts or crop tops, yr 6 leavers party.

So not children, but girls. Please make sure girls aren’t wearing anything which could be deemed provocative. Which is how it reads to me.

AIBU or not?

OP posts:
MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 19:26

Wearing a nappy is sexualised and a niche in porn and has been for decades
Most things are if you look hard enough.

This is average children being socialised to adhere to mainstream ideas of attractiveness and beauty.

The patriarchy must be laughing it's arse off if we're in a situation where women are actively promoting 10 year old girls following narrow views of attractiveness (which were created with appeal to men in mind) but calling it 'empowerment'. Can see the logic from an establishment perspective: Call it empowerment and then by their teens they'll associate 'attractiveness' with 'what we think is sexy'. Of course, the key is keeping them believing that all this fashion and looking good is all about how they feel. We wouldn't want anyone to notice that it's our version of beauty that's being promoted now would we?

Chewedupcucumber · 20/06/2018 19:26

@Maisypops - you are absolutely spot on.

I think it’s probably going over the heads of some posters on here, which is why they aren’t responding to it, but it needs to be said.

placemats · 20/06/2018 19:30

This reply has been deleted

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Chewedupcucumber · 20/06/2018 19:32
Hmm

@placemats - I thought we’d establish that hysterically causing people of being paedopholes because they DONT want to see children in inappropriate adult clothing was ridiculous?

I mean, is that seriously the best you’ve got?

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 20/06/2018 19:32

But surely these kids are also not buying their own clothes to the most part so it is the mothers choosing to put their children in these clothes.

Chewedupcucumber · 20/06/2018 19:33

A using people of being peodophiles 😂

Chewedupcucumber · 20/06/2018 19:34

Acusing!

throws phone out of window

PoodlesOfFund · 20/06/2018 19:35

How can they dictate what the children to wear to a venue that has nothing to do with the school and the children have paid for?

LuMarie · 20/06/2018 19:37

@placemats objects when poster mentions "teenage girls", chastising and saying

This discussion is on 10 and 11 year old girls. Please keep on topic.

@placemats then writes (on topic of school dress code, clothes suitable for bowling and 10 and 11 year old girls)

Wearing a nappy is sexualised and a niche in porn and has been for decades

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 20/06/2018 19:37

Also this is one partying they can dress as you wish at other times. You have three options:
Send your child in clothes that follow their rules
Send your child in clothes that don’t
Child doesn’t go

mathanxiety · 20/06/2018 19:37

This is average children being socialised to adhere to mainstream ideas of attractiveness and beauty.

This is average children being socialised to believe that their clothing contributes to rape. Seems many on this thread have been very well conditioned indeed.

lifetothefull · 20/06/2018 19:38

I think it is entirely appropriate for parents (at the suggestion of the school) to gently educate their children that they don't need to wander around half dressed in order to hang out and have fun with their mates. I think we should be helping girls to understand that they don't need to do this. They should be discouraged from wearing clothes that are designed to draw attention to their bodies. As mothers, we can do this in an way that affirms our daughters. It is equally inappropriate for boys to be topless. Perhaps they don't need to mention this as if this happens, teachers can just tell the boy to put his top back on.

MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 19:40

Thank you chewed.

Get women angry about anyone commenting on sexualised clothing. Even better if you can frame the people challenging it as the real pervs. If anyone so much as mentions that there is a socialisation element what makes someone attractive, best knock that down too. Claim that they are the ones with the problem. They're just looking to stifle girls' creativity and individuality. How awful of them!

Whilst we've got women hooked on the idea of 'wear this for empowerment', they'll let the kids wear it. Now obviously most normal folk would never look at a child in a sexual way (which is why the 'if you have an issue, you're a perv' argument appears so compelling), but it lays the groundwork for a certain model of attractiveness and all you have to do keep shutting down socialisation angles.

Once we've got girls buying into mini women ideals, we can sell them all sorts to make them feel better about themselves, in a 'totally empowering' way, obviously. Girls need dolls they can put makeup on, media features about how to copy someone's 'look'.

Add in the media, celebs, influences etc and we'll have teens who are image conscious. This is great because teens are going ti have a rocky time so best find ways to target their insecurities, spots? Pores? Bikini body? Tan? After all, they'll need to look right in the fashions we've decided are attractive.

Image conscious teens will want to continually spend money on clothes in order to keep looking attractive 'for their benefit', obviously. Whilst we're there, look at how you can do all this other stuff to your body so you can look even better. Everyone wants an Instagramable photo after all.

Now you've hit adolescence and you're getting noticed by boys (because part biology and part because we've taught you for years how to look and act for male benefit) and that reinforces to you what ut is to be attractive and pretty.

Then you hit early adulthood and you've bought into fast fashion and really the beauty industry, fashion industry abd diet industry is based on making astronomical amounts of money by exploting your insecurities. In fact, we'll even charge you more than men for hair removal products because we know you'll pay it (nobody wants the circle of shame over their armpit after all).

But socialisation doesn't happen and anyone who objects to children being brought into it are apologists for attackers and just want to bring girls down.

RebelRogue · 20/06/2018 19:43

@MaisyPops I think I get where you are coming from despite being on the opposite side of this debate,and I agree in principle.
However do you think that the way to challenge the status quo is by banning/shaming/preventing girls from wearing what they would like?( I'm not saying you did that in any of your posts,but others did)

MrsPMT · 20/06/2018 19:44

I agree with the rules, I only have a DS (13) but the amount of times he's had female friends come round to 'play' in the garden (trampoline, climbing frame) or go out on a countryside walk with the dog and they've appeared in tiny skirts is ridiculous.

I always send them home to change into something more suitable.

placemats · 20/06/2018 19:48

You can all now proceed to @ me all you like.

I don't get notifications.

HTH

mathanxiety · 20/06/2018 19:50

What have you told your DS about the female body, MrsPMT?

Have you ever sat him down and asked him what he learned from your response to his friends' clothes?

What have you taught him of his own personal responsibility as a male?

ColoursOfRain · 20/06/2018 19:51

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petrolpump28 · 20/06/2018 19:52

so what do you suggest? Everybody wears what they want all the time?

Cherrysherbet · 20/06/2018 19:53

Our head teacher sent a letter home asking for girls to wear shorts under their summer dresses, because she didn't want them 'showing their wares' 😳 Yes, she really did use those words!

mathanxiety · 20/06/2018 19:53

They are really coming out of the woodwork now...

ColoursOfRain · 20/06/2018 19:57

What have you told your DS about the female body, MrsPMT?

Have you ever sat him down and asked him what he learned from your response to his friends' clothes?

What have you taught him of his own personal responsibility as a male?

These questions are totally irrelevant As so many on here are suggesting that the girls' clothes make no difference to how a male perceives them, surely...

RebelRogue · 20/06/2018 19:57

The clothing might be the thing that tips the rapist over the edge.

What the actual fuck?

Cherrysherbet · 20/06/2018 19:59

coloursofrain what a load of twaddle.

MaisyPops · 20/06/2018 19:59

RebelRogue
I think there has to be a middle ground whilst we deconstruct very powerful agendas that continually push women and girls to act and dress a certain way. I don't believe we go forward by doing exactly what power narratives (which play on insecurity and promote male desires) say we should whilst pretending it's empowering and denying the issue (e.g. if you see an issue then you're the problem abd you blame victims for rape).

I find claims or implications of 'but that's what they want to wear' hard to get my head around as some kind of killer punch as if to say 'aha but it's empowering' when on almost any other feminist issue people are usually quick to be a bit more open e.g. 'yes a woman may opt to strip, but what social factors led her to that point'.

I don't believe that children should be dressed as mini adults, especially not in clothing emerging out of the values I mentioned above. It's placing them (in my opinion) into the very agendas and stereotypes which aim to keep women acting in a way that is pleasing to men.

As women, make the choices they want because they're adults. They're not free from socialisation, but that's their choice as women (just like it's mine to wear short skirts).

Children's clothes should be children's clothes in my opinion and within that they can go wild. No shame involved. (Should add by the way, I've zero issues with kids running nude on the beach etc. It's the socialisation element I have an issue with)

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