Please make sure children are wearing appropriate clothing

[Damnthatdog]

No mini skirts or crop tops, yr 6 leavers party.

So not children, but girls. Please make sure girls aren’t wearing anything which could be deemed provocative. Which is how it reads to me.

AIBU or not?

Because that's what certain types of clothing is supposed to do - turn people on.

www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html

A little education for all those people here who clearly need it.

In order to understand sexual violence you need to understand the perpetrators, not the victims. The focus on the victims is the work of the patriarchy. Rape is not a 'women's issue'. It is a huge problem that is caused by men.

The common denominator in rape is not the clothing of the victims. It is the mindset and beliefs of the men.

Heavy drinking, perceived pressure to have sex, a belief in “rape myths” — such as the idea that no means yes — are all risk factors among men who have committed sexual assault. A peer group that uses hostile language to describe women is another one.
Another is getting aroused by rape porn. And there is narcissism, and a sense of entitlement with a sense of grievance that that entitlement has not been acknowledged by women or girls. Unrequited entitlement, you might say, and a desire for revenge against women or girls.

...experts note one last trait shared by men who have raped: they do not believe they are the problem.

Do we contribute to that belief, I wonder?

ColoursofRain

These questions are totally irrelevant As so many on here are suggesting that the girls' clothes make no difference to how a male perceives them, surely...

The questions I asked are the crux of the problem.

See the article I posted.

I think that sometimes clothing DOES contribute to someone being raped

I've never found any kind of even remotely believable study on that....

When we consider that most rapists and perpetrators of child sexual abuse knew their victim before the encounter (family or otherwise close relationships are unfortunately the norm)?

It's unlikely.

The person that sees you walk around in pjs and cozy sweaters is far more likely to be your rapist than the one who usually encounters you when you're going out/wearing revealing clothing etc...

So if all little girls should wear what they want when they want...

Are you all saying that what's acceptable for the beach is acceptable to wear for a funeral? That dress never needs to be appropriate to the situation? You'd all show up in Ann Summers wear to a job interview because f*CK it you're a woman and don't accept social conditioning from anyone? I'm calling bullshit.

11 year olds are not adults, they need guidance.

One repeat offender put it this way: “I felt I was repaying her for sexually arousing me.”

Whatever the motivation behind it, the clothing becomes the excuse. You cannot say it doesn't play a part.

Do I think a man has the right to rape me if I choose to walk down the street stark naked? No. Would I be stupid enough to do so. Also no.

Do I think society needs educating to accept that people have a right to dress how they like and me unmolested? Yes. Do I think a teacher trying to give the kids a nice time at a party and avoid any problems with a bunch of over-excited kids should have that top of their agenda? No. And I mean over-excited in the sense of kids having a good time and not really listening or paying attention to stuff.

Pragmatism first.

Plus maria there's the whole clothes vs vulnerability issue.

Generally the children engaged in more risk taking behaviours and who are more at risk of child sexual exploitation are the more vulnerable children. Yes, some of them do display very overtly inappropriate sexual attire or condict, but that's not the reason they were harmed or taken advantage of. It's their vulnerability. And their vulnerability which can lead them into acting/dressing a certain way out of misplaced ideas of what is required/expected/will get the attention they crave (out of their vulnerability). Disgusting as it is to type, their vulnerability is the reason they are targeted, not their dress.

*be unmolested

so if they are vulnerable it is the duty of the school and the parents to protect?

I agree with them! I have noticed that so many young girls, I would say around 12 years old are wearing inappropriate clothing for their age and when I say inappropriate I mean very short crop tops, tight high shorts... it just makes me feel really uneasy! How on Earth are the parents not realising they're wearing / buying these kind of clothing items? It's not acceptable TBH! Trying to dress like they're all grown up before they turn 18 is ridiculous.

@MaisyPops In your opinion, how do we challenge these ideas about "fashion" and clothing without putting the onus on girls ?

I also wonder if small part of the issue is that styles vary so much and there's a massive difference between a unicorn crop top and jeans(I think it was you that gave the example) and a mini woman .

I get your point, but at the same time I'm not comfortable with telling girls to cover up,not provoke,ban clothes on the basis of getting attention and apparently not tipping rapists over the edge etc.

some kids at 10 / 11 yr are far too grown up looking these days. i think the school is quite right to set a dress code for a school trip.its not a nightclub they are going to.

Maisy

Exactly.

Being or appearing vulnerable is why people (children but also adults, btw...) Are often targeted.

The onus tends to fall on girls because they are the ones wearing short sorts (showing bum cheeks) or bra like crop tops! The onus is on them because they are wearing inappropriate clothing!

Seeing the tops of pants (boys and girls) is very different to seeing the crotch! Boys have been totally shamed when wearing the ridiculous trousers that show their pants, so it does happen both ways.

Boys generally wear jeans and tshirts or track suits or football kits (as a generalisation). They're not the ones with mini skirts on...

🙄 why are people always looking for a reason to be offended.

I hate seeing prepubescent kids in mini skirts and crop tops, same as I hate bikinis, kids In make up, kids in heels. It is a child emulating an adult in a way which looks weird. Crop tops and mini skirts are suitable provocative clothing for when you are trying to find a mate, not when you’re ten and playing a sport. They emphasise legs, waist, figure in a way kids just shouldn’t be doing. Guessing school feel the same.

They’ve probably had silly parents making bad choices before in this cohort and are heading it off at the pass.

rebel
I'd say what you've said. Unicorn crop top and jeans, quite evidently not dressing a child based on adult views of female sexuality and attractiveness. I have no issue there (also also wore daft cropped halternecks as a pre teen with combat trousers from Tammy. It wasn't a good look but the things we so for fashion )

The thing for schools is that they have to draw a line and I'd personally much rather them have a blanket 'school trip - no crop tops' than have to get into 'well A is wearing a casual slightly cropped t shirt with jeans and that's ok, buy child B's parent has dressed their child in a sparkly bralette and hot pants'.

(I absolutely do not hold the idea that clothing is a reason to excuse assault. Ever. Clothing is never a reason or an excuse.)

premier....because they can.

My DD is in year 6 and not the type to wear that kind of stuff but to be fair I have seen other girls in her class walk home from school in summer (non uniform days) in hot pants and a crop top. To me that's practically underwear. Unfortunately it is incredibly difficult to find attractive shorts for girls that aren't considerably shorter than those for girls. I recently bought her some summer PJs that are so short, if she lays on her back, on her bed, you get a full view of everything that an 11 year old should not be flashing. Maybe I'm a prude, but I'd like her to keep that covered for at least another 5 years if not longer!

You are presuming that a boy doesn’t want to wear a skirt and/ or crop top .

@ColoursOfRain no. The onus is not on an 11 yo to combat patriarchy,to stand against socialisation and not to tip rapists over the age.
The onus is not on 11yo girls to appease grownups and their ideas of modesty and what's appropriate.

The onus is not on girls to avoid being raped,assaulted,harassed,up skirted.

And the fact that you just compared the "shaming" of boys to what is being said and done to girls (including on this thread) tells me all I need to know.

I don't why it's feminist to encourage 11 year olds to wear sexualised clothing. It's baffling. They're children.

i guess the teachers dont want to have to deal with the problem of girls exposing their underwear to the general public ....but they are children not teenagers so it does seem a bit icky. They would have been better to ask all children to come in appropriate attire such as leggings/jeans rather than again making girls responsible for male behaviour because that is what the underlying issue is.

And the fact that you just compared the "shaming" of boys to what is being said and done to girls (including on this thread) tells me all I need to know

What does this mean please?