Please make sure children are wearing appropriate clothing

[Damnthatdog]

No mini skirts or crop tops, yr 6 leavers party.

So not children, but girls. Please make sure girls aren’t wearing anything which could be deemed provocative. Which is how it reads to me.

AIBU or not?

@derxa I think it's more that it's anti feminist to claim that 11yo girls dressing a certain way are cheap,provoking,doing it for male attention etc. And if something bad might happen,it's up to them to stop it by wearing something different.

mathanxiety what has my attitude taught my son? That girls sometimes wear impractical clothes, that's all its about for me. If you are doing something physical and wearing clothing that will show your underwear with movement or where your legs will get scratched/ stung by nettles, why wear a teeny skirt? It's definitely a "fashion" reason why they choose to dress like this and he just sees it as silly/doesn't understand.

I was very much a shorts under skirt girl when I was a child so the boys wouldn't say "I can see your pants" when I wanted to play physically, maybe it's a wrong attitude but it made me feel comfortable and equal. I tell my son off for making these kind of comments but inwardly groan at the girls choice in clothing, at the end of the day, why wear something so useless, what's the point? (am obviously not a skirt wearer and also frequently wear men's t-shirts as women's are so impractical, lean over and it shows my bra). To me it's not about what others think, it's me feeling comfortable, underwear is just that underwear.

@petrolpump28 PP compared boys being shamed for wearing low hanging trousers with girls being shamed for what they wear.
Boy shaming consists of being laughed at,being told it looks silly etc,pretty harmless stuff.
Girl shaming consists in real life (and on this thread) of comments that were very close to slut shaming, victim blaming ,being told they are provoking men,drawing attention to themselves,lack modesty. The same PP also said that clothes "might tip a rapist over the edge".

To compare the two is bonkers,double standards and an awful minimising of what girls through daily.

Maybe you're reading too much into it. Maybe the teachers just want to give out a good impression of the girls that attend that school.

"What do teachers do when taking year 6 on overnight stays? Surely then they get to see pupils in their underwear and nightwear?"

I went on a school trip at age 11 for 4 nights, not a single teacher saw me in my underwear. I think if they had my parents would have had a few things to say to them!

That girls sometimes wear impractical clothes, that's all its about for me

But crop tops are very practical imo. I wore one this evening (when I was gardening. Being topless isn't acceptable for women - where I live when they're doing work in the front yard) so I chose an imo practical top that allowed me to be nearly as comfortable as being topless would have been...

I think it's more that it's anti feminist to claim that 11yo girls dressing a certain way are cheap,provoking,doing it for male attention etc. And if something bad might happen,it's up to them to stop it by wearing something different.

It may be anti feminist to claim that women dressing a certain way are cheap,provoking,doing it for male attention etc. And if something bad might happen,it's up to them to stop it by wearing something different.
However these are children who shouldn't be dressed in sexy clothing because it's inappropriate for children at a school event which is taking place in a public arena. Also what about the girls who don't wear the crop tops and short skirts? Won't it make them feel a bit 'wrong' and uncool? The school are setting a dress code which helps everyone imo.

@ColoursOfRain no. The onus is not on an 11 yo to combat patriarchy,to stand against socialisation and not to tip rapists over the age.
The onus is not on 11yo girls to appease grownups and their ideas of modesty and what's appropriate.

I never said it was up to the 11 year old. The adults are the ones who are buying and facilitating the inappropriate clothing. It is also up to the adult to protect the child from those who will use any excuse to do what they want.

I'm looking forward to you all going round in your underwear tomorrow, because, hey, you should be allowed to wear what you like

As an aside, it interests me that the 'empowerment' movement always encourages women to feel empowered to strip off to their underwear... it's becoming quite fashionable now. Always empowered to strip. Never empowered to say you don't want to strip... (I can only think of one example of men joining in. Generally, they just get on with things)

I get where you're coming from. It's discriminatory because it is clearly setting a dress code for girls. It's not unreasonable to deduce from this that someone thinks it's ok to teach girls at a young age that boys can't be held responsible for their actions if girls dress inappropriately.

And I deliberately used the word shaming as I was copying your language! Maybe it would have been easier for you to understand had I used inverted commas...

They said children not girls.

Stop looking for things to have a moan about.

I think that the school is right. It's not about shaming women /girls about their clothing. Yes, in principle, I agree that anyone should be able to wear what they want when they want but in reality 'appropriate' clothing is asked for in many scenarios. How many of you would be happy if the male teachers in your child's primary school all turned up to work in thonga or pvc hotpants? Would you still be saying 'anyone should be allowed to wear what they want whenever they want'? I think not.

"Easier for you to understand" should read "clearer" - written that didn't read how I meant!

God this is profoundly sad. What a world we live in.
A fun event at the end of a hard year.

I'd email back and ask "sorry, what EXACTLY is my ten year old daughter supposed to be avoiding provoking?"

The email doesn't say anything about provoking.

I imagine that what they have in mind is preventing your 10-year-old from flashing her knickers to everyone. Which isn't really such a disaster, but she would probably be mortified.

@derxa not all crop tops and short skirts are sexy clothing. But as Maisy pointed out that's by the by when it comes to schools as blanket policies are the way to go rather than aiming at individuals. And that's fair enough.

While I see your point I'm still uncomfortable with (most of )the rhetoric of this thread and the various reasons as to why they shouldn't wear certain clothes.

@ColoursOfRain

The onus tends to fall on girls because they are the ones wearing short sorts (showing bum cheeks) or bra like crop tops! The onus is on them because they are wearing inappropriate clothing!

Your own words.

Type "embrace body movement" into google images. You'll see images of people embracing their curves/ flab/ wrinkles etc. Good - there's nothing wrong with that.

But then you might notice that 90%+ of those images are of people who have stripped down to their underwear. Why is that? Why is it that most of them are female? Why does positive body image mean stripping off?

This is not off topic. Just like this thread, people are desperate to prove how free and empowered they are by wearing as little as possible. (Although I detest the expression), surely these people are playing right int the hands of the "patriarchy"

Why is it such a bad thing NOT to wear clothes that don't show underwear? Why can't girls wear jeans and tshirts like boys often do?

I wonder what world some of you live in? I know some girls as young as year 5 and 6 who are allowed to watch Love Island. I also know some girls as young as 11 who can pass for 15 / 16 when dressed in the way they like to and who can apply makeup better than I've ever known how to.

Of course they are doing it because they perceive they can get attention that way.

Sexualised behaviour has become normalised within society which is why some children like to dress in certain ways.

Schools are perfectly entitled to say that certain dress codes are unacceptable and the fact that his applies to girls more than boys does not make it sexist, it's just the reality.

@rebelrogue

Ah - I thought you were referring to a later post of mine. Yes, wrote that, but THAT post was quoting the words of a poster before mine. Throwing words back. Since writing that I've realised that the thread is moving so fast that I need to quote the references to be clearer.

FWIW I think it's the parents of girls (or whichever sex they are dressing(!) ) that take the responsibility.

This was the post I was quoting (can't remember the poster now)

Why should any girl change what she wears at the age of ten to avoid being 'eye candy' what are we saying to our girls? The onus is on them to conform. I don't think so. What happened to a girl's individuality and style? Her identity....It is a dangerous road no?

I am not the only poster to quote the word 'onus' back at this poster. My use of the word stems from answering this poster who used the phrase first!

Why would a parent wantto send a 10 year old girl on a school trip dressed like that? There are plenty of pervs around and I would rather protect my daughter from that kind of attention. Mini skirts weren’t really a “thing” until I was about 12 and believe me I know what I am talking about from experience and my mum didn’t really have a clue. It’s not about suggesting it’s provocative, it’s that there are twisted minds out there who really like to see girls dressed like that because they think it means they are up for it. And they get off on that idea. It’s not even about feminism. It’s about managing the type of attention that your daughter is likely to attract.

@ColoursOfRain maybe because for centuries women were told and forced to cover up. An ankle was scandalous. So was hair. Only a "certain type" of woman would wear x or show y.
Then it was ok to show skin but only if you were a certain age,body shape,no scars ,impairments or other "unpleasantness ". That kind of shit.

So there is a bit of "I can and I want to so I'll do it". Tbh I think it will die down eventually,not through social pressure but due to the "empowered" feeling fading. Because if you were always allowed to do something,there's nothing special to keep doing it.

I rarely(can count on fingers of one hand) wore short skirts until i was 22. I was told i was too fat and other bullshit. Moved to the UK and despite still being fat,short skirts did fit me and did suit me and I loved how I looked. Ended up owning like 30 of them and wore them year round.
Now,10 years later I'm in jeans and leggings most of the time.

Why do we need children in clothes designed to titillate - male or female? Mini skirts are designed to show legs and hint at what is further up, crop tops a flash of torso and if you’re lucky higher. Whether you like it or not, these fashions have their roots in these concepts, whether you’re a feminist or not. You’re deluded if you think standing for equality stops the pervs perving, and I for one will not encourage my dcs wearing clothing that is aimed at flashing flesh. It’s not victim blaming it’s fucking common sense. Equality may say women wear what they want, when they want and how they want it but fucking peadophiles don’t give a single shit what they think, they still find it exciting and an imagined excuse for their perversions.

I work for the police. And no, my kids don’t have Instagram, or FB or any of that stuff we see daily featured as part of the story we have parents unable to comprehend or help heal their child. You stand your bloody principles for feminism, the guys getting off on it will carry on doing so.

"Sexualised behaviour has become normalised within society which is why some children like to dress in certain ways."

^this.

It doesn't always come down to paedophiles and rapists and protecting children from them (although of course this is a main priority). Sometimes it comes down to why do these young girls want to show so much flesh and have their arses barely covered for a school trip?